Author Topic: Wing foil sessions - beginner  (Read 7806 times)

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2020, 07:41:21 AM »
Oh, so thatís what youíre all so stoked about...

Flew for real yesterday. Probably 45 seconds to a minute. Long enough to see that the wing is super stable once up, the speed is amazing, you can totally play with the altitude in a controlled way.

Not only is this a great feeling on its own, but itís going to give me what I hoped for, long foil rides so I can dial the foil better for surfing.

For tracking, 6 sessions and solid 15 mph wind is what it took me to get to a decent heelside (goofy) run. Working on switch stance as well but have yet to foil switch.

Thx guys, especially admin and bigmtn. Getting that foil all the way forward helped a ton. Iíve moved it back a bit but it would have taken forever to fly if you hadnít told me to overcompensate. Oh, and getting foil position right in the box feels amazing. Itís almost like you can do no wrong.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2020, 09:01:43 PM »
Ok, so Iím winging once a month lol. Iíll dial it by 2030. But LA has a lot of good things, just not so much Fall wind. Iíll catch up in the Spring.

Ok, so 2 hours out and winging is the most physically demanding sport Iíve ever done. Literally every muscle is used. Headmount mentioned it this week but I felt it today.

Light wing in Long Beach 9-10 mph but it started gusting after an hour. Right as I was starting to feel tired lol. Got up on foil a few times heelside and noticed something. When Iím pumping the wing (not the board so much) As the board gets moving I find my weight is way back so when I come onto foiling have to catch up and pull myself forward. If I try to stay more upright I donít get going. Is this just more light wing messing with me?

In good news, I was able to stay upwind more this time. It gets better. Apparently walking isnít actually part of the sport. Who knew?

Also, Iíve been riding my e-skateboard switch (with the speed dialed all the way down to granny low) and that seemed to make me way more comfortable in switch stance today.

I really feel like Iím getting this, if I could do it more than once a month lol. But I do love winging, I can tell it suits me already. I like being offshore and even at Belmont where thereís a ton of kiters no one is in your way or you in theirs like surfing. Also, I love cruising on a big wing. Just parking up on foil and feeling that powder skiing feeling.

Iím going to try to hit a lake soon, just for the novelty I think too.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2020, 04:20:44 AM »
I often see new wingers weighting the back foot, or leaning back to make the board lift off the water. This results in the board climbing too steeply and flying near stall. Then itís unstable and they fall. It also gives the feeling you need to catchup with the board.

Bouncing the board is best. Unweighting the front foot and pressing again. The board will pop up breaking surface suction and shoot forward onto to foil with you the rider, in a balanced position, and at a good flying speed, with better board stability. This is where short wing boards win. Otherwise, wait for more wind and just stand there in the right spot, and wait for speed to make it happen, smoothly, no leaning back.

Admin

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2020, 04:21:51 AM »
Yeah!  A new addict. 

9-10 is tough.  When we say 10, that is what is reading as our average windspeed.  There will always be gusts and lulls above an below the average.  If 10 is your top gust, that is painful.  If it is 10 with gusts to around 14, that can work.  It is much nicer when it is 14 with gusts to say, 18.  That is terrific wind to learn in. 

I missed your post from Sept.  That sounds great.  A minute is a lot of flying! 

What you wrote about having your weight too far back is a really big part of getting this sorted.  You want to feel centered so that you can put back foot pressure on the foil without feeling like you are behind it.  If you feel like your kit is angling up in front of you when you take off, your body is too far back.  That is really hard to recover from.  You want to be balanced and able to apply that pressure with a little shift of your hips to pressure that back foot.  It isn't a stomp or a body shift.  This happens a lot when it is light because you want to be flying.  If you don't have the speed, just shifting your hips won't get you airborn, so you tend to lean back in an effort to fly.  That may get you some lift but it wont last.  You will plop back down or worse.  :)

The key in light wind is to be selective.  Crab slightly upwind until you see your gust.  Look upwind at the water and wait for the darkest cat's paw.  When it is almost on you, center your body, sheet in to turn a little down wind and start some slow ease-in wing pumps even before the gust gets to you.  Do that gently just to get the board tracking.  Then when the gust hits you give some progressively deeper and more powerful wing pumps.   Wait until you have decent forward motion to apply back foot pressure.  If you go to early you are going to stall and will need to start again.  Lift off at a low angle.  All you want to do at first is free the board.  Don't worry about climbing right to max height.  Once it is clear you are home free.  Then you can climb up faster or pump up to height.  In short, weight centered, decent speed and ease it up. 

You can and will modify all of that in many ways over time but this is the core takeoff for light and mid weight people. 

PonoBill

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2020, 09:08:25 AM »
For me, the key to light wind foiling is bouncing on the board. In conditions like yesterday here in the Gorge I have my biggest f-one (6M) and my biggest foil wing (Axis 1150) As far as wing pumping goes, I do pretty much exactly as Admin describes, but when I get a little board speed going I jump up and down on the board. Nothing so organized as trying to pump the board, it's a straightforward bouncing like a lunatic and continuing to pump. When the board comes off the surface I shorten the wing pumps up so I'm pumping quicker, with short strokes, and I shift my weight forward to get the nose "over the hump", shoving forward with my feet at the same time.

If all that sounds complicated and planned, it is and it isn't. I'm sure I look more than a bit manaical getting up, but at 215 with at least 5 pounds of wetsuit I need all the leaping about i can manage to get up on the foil.

As soon as I'm up I turn upwind and pump a few times (wing and board) to pick up some speed. With light wind, the apparent wind is critical. When I turn downwind I expect that heavy 6M wing to hang down and try to drop a tip in the water. I can't flag the wing to the side or behind me because there isn't enough wind to hold the wing up. So I keep it as high as I can and just look for swells to accelerate on.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 09:10:04 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2020, 02:04:49 PM »
Thanks guys. This is exactly what I was feeling. The description of the angled board is where I was.

Itís one of the downsides of a positive thing. Iím small and nimble so I can adjust for bad behavior. Iíll start working on staying centered. When I first get up I hilariously go up and down while I get myself centered (and can fall during this.)

I am noticing in knee high chop that my nose buries which, yeah, what can you do, right? This is probably going to push me towards a shorter board sooner rather than later to fit in better.

Iím being careful to not try to pump too much until/unless Iím already off the water. But the bounce makes sense. Really, itís about conditions. I now feel that my next 15mph day Iíll be up. When I got on foil I know the wind was gusting to at least near 15.

So, summary for those following, donít get too far back on your board.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2020, 02:06:24 PM »
Next beginner topic will be wing placement fore/aft. Iíll draft up some supporting gfx to prevent confusion as I think this one will get dicey otherwise lol.

deja vu

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2020, 02:38:14 PM »
For me, the key to light wind foiling is bouncing on the board. In conditions like yesterday here in the Gorge I have my biggest f-one (6M) and my biggest foil wing (Axis 1150) As far as wing pumping goes, I do pretty much exactly as Admin describes, but when I get a little board speed going I jump up and down on the board. Nothing so organized as trying to pump the board, it's a straightforward bouncing like a lunatic and continuing to pump. When the board comes off the surface I shorten the wing pumps up so I'm pumping quicker, with short strokes, and I shift my weight forward to get the nose "over the hump", shoving forward with my feet at the same time.

If all that sounds complicated and planned, it is and it isn't. I'm sure I look more than a bit manaical getting up, but at 215 with at least 5 pounds of wetsuit I need all the leaping about i can manage to get up on the foil.

As soon as I'm up I turn upwind and pump a few times (wing and board) to pick up some speed. With light wind, the apparent wind is critical. When I turn downwind I expect that heavy 6M wing to hang down and try to drop a tip in the water. I can't flag the wing to the side or behind me because there isn't enough wind to hold the wing up. So I keep it as high as I can and just look for swells to accelerate on.

Sort of like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebDKKpOZnw4

PonoBill

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2020, 08:59:59 AM »
Sort of like this?

No. Exactly like that. If that guy was a geezer and his wing was an F-one then it would be me. Note the way he used the wind chop to break the surface just before he got fully up. If it wasn't for handy swells to pop over I'd need another 5mph to get up.

Apparent wind is the name of the game in light wind. If you're angled close to the wind angle you're getting the most wind across your wing: Wind speed plus board speed. Of course if you want to get back to where you started you can't just go upwind, so you can pump both the wing and the foil to keep your speed up, or take short turns upwind to power up the wing, pump to increase speed, and then turn the way you want to go.

When I started my session yesterday it was light and super gusty--like 10 mph with 25 mph gusts, and the gusts were few and far between. I still had fun because I could pump through the lulls. I went way upwind, which was kind of a bad idea, I could have had a long walk or swim if the wind died, but with the gusts and the good swells, I could manage a downwind run. Whenever my wing started to sag and get heavy I'd just turn into a broad reach, pump to increase speed, and then turn downwind again and chase bumps.

The coolest thing about this sport is the wide range of condition you can deal with. We can have fun in next to no wind, or when it's absolutely nuking.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2020, 11:06:31 AM »
Check out Jeremy in the vid below.  Not winging, but the principle is the same.  He isn't vertical bouncing like the above video at all.  He is starting by gaining speed and then syncing progressively stronger forward pumps as he gains speed.  He basically swims it slowly upwards but always driving his pumps forwards. He is cycling pressure from back foot to front foot in a delayed rhythm.  The vertical bouncing tends to plow the nose on the down so it slows as much as it lifts. 

https://youtu.be/eiSWT8J5f-8
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 11:11:19 AM by Admin »

Beasho

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2020, 02:00:18 PM »
For me, the key to light wind foiling is bouncing on the board. . . .

Sort of like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebDKKpOZnw4

This is super motivational.  I wouldn't have believed it possible if not for a video testimonial. 

I have a long way to go but am getting more optimistic about the light air takeoff.  I have the heavy air down, just need 15 mph to get up and fly.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2020, 09:19:08 PM »
Got a good day in with some decent wind. 15-20 at Belmont. I stayed centered today. No real pumping needed other than the wing. Popped right up, as was said by all here.

Tearing off with some wind I am understanding why people like this sport. It probably doesnít look like much but man it feels like youíre going so fast. Super fun.

My next question is that Iím a few sessions in now and it still feels really unstable between the wind and the chop and the foil hauling ass lol. I get on foil and just donít seem to lock in like I can in the surf. Reading back the conditions above I guess I shouldnít be surprised. Does it start to make sense after a while?

I decided to just go for it and was able to get a decent run but Iím not moderating altitude as well as Iíd like is the way I guess Iíd say it. Also the chop makes that hard as the surface is dropping away. I understand why people ride the long mast now. I really need some smooth water. Iím checking out a lake soon and probably need to get to a marina that has some space for a few sessions.

In the end, I suspect itís just time on water. But this stuff is for sure fun, even if itís hard as hell to get going.

Admin

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2020, 12:03:42 AM »
That's great Cowboy!  Yeah, there is a lot going on (particularly in wild water) and it first it is hard to feel what is doing what.  You are making really solid progress.  There are days when it is really hard to lock in and others when everything seems smooth and easy.  A lot of that can be conditions.  I'm jealous!

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2020, 11:00:21 AM »
I really need some smooth water. Iím checking out a lake soon and probably need to get to a marina that has some space for a few sessions.
From my buddy who's really good at it, the above is exactly what he said as well. He lives on an inland lake that sits down in a valley surrounded by hills that gets plenty of wind, but because of the topography, the water stays pretty calm when it's blowing pretty well out there.

He brought his rig to the beach a time or two, but even in just 10-12 mph wind, Sano gets so chopped up and confused, that he doesn't even bother packing it with him any longer.

The lake you're talking about should be excellent for what you're trying to do, because I used to boat/fish on it back in the 70's, and I remember it getting windy, but the water never got so bad that we called it a day early.

Good luck, and stoked to hear you're up and having a blast!!
Me: 6'1"/185...5'7" Kings Foil Board...6'0" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

surfcowboy

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Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2020, 07:40:22 PM »
Thx guys.

Yeah itís funny, the progression is actually pretty fast but you know we all get impatient. I almost went to the lake today but was just too whipped. I have to up my land training. My left bicep is smoked (heelside back arm) from pulling upwind.

Saw some guys winging on the lake and yeah SanO itís as you say, you can get decent wind without serious chop.

Oh, and one terrifying moment getting out yesterday. High tide, steep beach, and a berm built up to hold back the swell. Iíd gone way down south near the jetty where itís open to the swell (chest high shore break) and just couldnít deal with getting back upwind so I tried to time it and did ďokĒ. Walked in from chest deep and got swept up onto the beach by a nice wave... and then it sucked out. I barely hung on and kept my board up out of the impact zone. If you donít have a waist leash for your wing, even if you donít use it in the water, itís really critical for in/out. If Iíd tried to manage both Iíd have been pummeled. My wing just flailed and was fine and I could keep the foil & board from nailing me or destroying itself. I honestly think the only time I need a helmet is getting in and out of the water.

Iím adding a bottom handle to my board so I can pack it and run.

And really, gonna hit the lake for a few and get to where I can sail/surf this rig up into a nice safe landing.

 


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