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Author Topic: Seeking feedback before getting a new board  (Read 4981 times)

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2020, 05:27:13 PM »
Burchas:  You make some good points. Hereís my thinking:

Any race board would be a massive step up from my current board - as far as feeling faster. Therefore, I haven't been overly concerned about picking the fastest board. Because if I buy a race board and it doesnít make flat water paddling more enjoyable, then itís unlikely a board that was slightly faster would have made the difference. In other words, I can meet my goal without trying to buy the ultimate speed machine. Pretty fast is probably fast enough. 

On the other hand, a board that is too challenging might be pretty hard to live with. Can't help but notice that the forum has several posts by people who regretted buying a board that was really fast but too unstable to be fun. I havenít seen a single post by people complaining that their new board was really fast but too stable.   Well, except for your post perhaps.  :)   

Keep in mind, I've only paddled my 30" wide inflatable. I have zero personal experience with tippy boards. Five minutes on a race board would probably tell me a lot. Without that, my feeling is I have to play it safe and try not to get a board that's too challenging, temping as it might be. I'm totally fine with a board I have to grow into a bit but can't afford to make a really terrible choice.

The other consideration is cost of course. There's only so much "fun" you can make flat water paddling. Be kind of silly to spend a lot of money for a marginal gain in fun. Boards that I can find at a discount or used have a big advantage over those that are harder to come by. For instance, I found used Blackfishes for as low as $1,800 + shipping. The only price I saw the Speeder SS was for $2,999. Retailers will probably discount the popular models more too I think.

Of course I would absolutely love a 21 lb board. I have over 30 years of lifting heavy windsurfers on/off car racks and to the water. Donít miss it even a little bit.  My last long board was a Kona One that weighted about 34 lbs. Believe me, I can appreciate the value in a light board. 

TallDude: You're right in that the UV is pretty intense at 6,000 feet where I live. But I never paddle in the heat of the day and the UV is much less intense in the morning and early evenings when I do paddle.  I assume that's not going to be a concern for these boards, right?  Abiquiu Lake is feed by the Rio Chama river and that's sourced from Colorado.  I don't know what the salinity levels are but having lived in Hawaii is a kid, I can say with confidence it's not saltwater.  8)
Red Paddle Sport 11' x 30"

burchas

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2020, 06:29:08 PM »
In other words, I can meet my goal without trying to buy the ultimate speed machine. Pretty fast is probably fast enough. 

If you're going by that logic, save your self the time and money and buy a Starboard 14 x 28 Waterline Lite Tech. You're always going to pay premium for the "Race" moniker for
no apparent reason. For those 1399 you'll be fast enough and won't have to worry about stability either.
in progress...

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2020, 08:54:33 PM »
Okay, I'll take a look at it.
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Area 10

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2020, 08:52:26 AM »
Burchas has made an interesting suggestion. Here is a review of the Waterline by one of our local retailers. Tony is a good guy and always strives to give balanced reviews of products. It is is clear that this is a board for low-wind flat water conditions, but if those are your conditions it could be a great choice and economical too. Tony doesn't say anything about ghr construction and the price precludes fancy materials, but presumably the Starboard will say how it is constructed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8NbppHVNCSY





NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2020, 12:57:35 PM »
Wow, the Waterline certainly looks fast and slick. Looks a little bit like the Navy Seal steath boat they call SeaLion. Thanks for the link Area 10. Other than that review, I havenít found much information about it. And no users posting their experience with it. I hate that all the marketing talks about how fast and efficient their boards are. Without some data to look at or a benchmark to compare it to, it just leaves me scratching my head, you know what I mean? How fast is this board, really?

For instance, what would be the advantage of the Waterline compared to inflatable race boards like the Starboard Airline, RP Elite or Naish Maliko at 27Ē or 28Ē wide? Iím wondering because for the price of the Waterline (Lite Tech) + a roof rack, I could buy one of those. Iím guessing that in flat water they would all be a litter faster than the Waterline but not as stable. But pretty stable if they are around 27", right?  And they are all lighter than the Waterline too. Plus the Airline even has bungie tie downs. They donít market Airline as a fast touring board but seems like they could.  So at a glance, Iím not seeing an advantage to the Waterline other than it looks really cool and it's a hard board.  Unless of course it's fast enough to give those inflatables a run for their money. And maybe it can. But if it was that fast, they would probably market it as a dedicated flat water race board.

Like I said, it leaves me scratching my head.

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Area 10

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2020, 01:39:37 PM »
The waterline will be quite a lot faster in flat water than any similar width inflatable. And you don't need to pump it up. And it will last longer, and won't go.pop.or hiss and leave you stranded. That's quite a lot of advantages.

Inflatables don't go really fast - any of them. They start to bounce and oscillate and flex too much when you really start putting the power down. They can make decent speedy cruisers for the average paddler though.

With that nose I should think the Waterline would be fast enough to race in a pure flat water distance race. Just as long as there was no significant chop or technical stuff like buoy turns etc.

This concept of board has been tried before. The problem.is that the nose imparts so much roll.thst the board needs to be wide and the tail fat. This then limits the speed somewhat. But it can work well for flat water paddlers who don't race much and just want an efficient board.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 01:48:53 PM by Area 10 »

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2020, 02:07:08 PM »
Okay, if it's really going to be that fast and stable on flat water, then it does sound like a good fit for me

I certainly have the ideal flat water to paddle it on. Here's a picture I took during my paddling session this morning.

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Area 10

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2020, 02:23:47 PM »
If those conditions are typical then the Waterline would be a good choice, and you are wasting your time with inflatables:)

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2020, 03:26:54 PM »
This is a pretty typical morning which is when I usually paddle. As it day warms up, the winds come up so by 10am it's not glassy anymore But still pretty calm. But by early afternoon, it can be pretty windy, choppy with white caps.
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Kip

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2020, 03:18:29 PM »
I'll share my little experience: I don't know as much as all these folks since I've only been paddling 6 months, but I did the same thing as you! I researched this stuff to death and then finally got sick of it and pulled the trigger so I could just go have fun and enjoy the water. I certainly respected and appreciated everyones insight and advice, but ultimately I didn't listen to the "don't go too narrow" advice. I purchased a 14 x 23 blackfish and then almost immediately turned around and purchased a 14 x 21 whiplash as well.
I have SO MUCH FUN every day that I get to paddle and don't regret either of them one bit.

Only you know what kind of balance you have and what you're capable of, everyone else is just assuming you'll be the same as them and/or everyone else they've met, so consider yourself and your abilities and trust that! Whether that means you gotta stay a little wider or go narrow. You know yourself best.

My whiplash would LOVE that lake you've got there :) But I would 100% recommend the BlackFish PPVC. It's $2395 with free shipping new. I've knocked mine on plenty of stuff since I purchased it and it is DURABLE. I only got one paint chip when I wasn't paying attention and hit the metal tracks of my garage and it was super easy to touch up. It's super stable and a dream to paddle on flat water, even though it's not "flatwater specific". It just skips along and I get mesmerized watching the nose hahaha I took it on a 6 mile downwind run with 35+mph gusts too, so if you ever find yourself traveling, you can be sure it will handle some nasty stuff. It feels just as stable as my old 14x25 Riviera I got rid of.

----> https://infinity-sup.com/collections/race/products/blackfish-ppvc?variant=31209592651887

Not sure if that helps, but good luck! I'm stoked for you  8)

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2020, 11:12:44 PM »
Thanks for sharing your experience Kip. Sorry it took so long to respond but I haven't logged in for awhile. Sounds like you're having a great time with your Blackfish and Whiplash. That's awesome!  The Blackfish is on my short list but I hadn't noticed the PPVC model you recommended so I'll have to take a look at it.

As for board width, since I've only been on my 11x30 board, I honestly didn't have a gut feel for what I'm capable of on a 14' board. But I got good advice here so I'm comfortable with about 25" in a race board. And with the Starboard Waterline touring board also on my short list, I might be looking at 28" board which seems pretty wide but the feedback is that it's pretty fast on flat water.   

For now I'm just keeping an eye out for inventory to see what's available and what goes on sale. My lake has a blue-green algae infestation that's keeping me out of the water and with winter fast approaching, I probably won't be paddling again until March.  So I have time to shop for a board and have a handful of boards on my short list. Looking forward to hitting the water next season! Hope my experience is as good as yours has been.

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NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2021, 01:35:02 AM »
I've been sitting back lazily watching for SUP sales for a few months. Figure it's time to start getting serious about buying a board before the weather warms up.

To recap my situation, Iím 61, 160 lbs and I paddle for fitness at a small local lake, typically on very flat water with little boat traffic.  Iíve paddled for two seasons and now Iím looking to upgrade from my Red Paddle 11x30 Sport to something that glides better, goes faster and is just more fun.



Hereís the boards that I currently have my eye on. Any thoughts about them would be appreciated.

2021 12í6 x 28 Starboard Waterline (Lite tech): Initially I looked at the 14x28 but dropped it when I saw it was 32 lbs. Iíll happily sacrifice a little potential speed for a board that is easier to carry around. This board is the least expensive of the bunch and seems to check off all the boxes. The two thing I donít like about this board is nobody seems to own one (I havenít found a single user posting about it) and I donít have a good feel for how durable a lite tech board is.

Occasionally, I'll see flat water race boards for less than $2K (delivered to New Mexico). Pricier than the Waterline but still within my budget. Here's the current crop I'm watching. Do you think any of these would be more fun, go faster and glide better than the Waterline?

2017 14 x 25  Infinity Whiplash (production model,  flat deck): At 24 lbs, itís about 4 lbs lighter than the 12í6 Waterline. Love that!  It doesnít have the design changes Infinity introduced in 2018 - like the hybrid square tail / pin tail design, more volume and a deeper channel.  But it does have several stability features people suggested like a square tail,  boxy rails and a concave channel on the bottom.

2018 12í6 x 25 Infinity Whiplash (production model, flat deck): Another Whiplash but this one is 12í6 and it has all the new design features that were added in 2018.  My only concern is whether this is going too narrow for me to paddle well. Wish it was the dugout configuration to give me the extra stability but I haven't seen any of those under $2K.

2019 14 x 25  Jimmy Lewis U-Boat (production, dugout): Iíve seen various U-boat models at half off.  Iíve read great things about other JL boards but nothing about the U-boat. Was this a bad design or something?

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Bulky

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2021, 01:34:09 PM »
I'd go with the 2017 Whiplash.  Any of these will be a neat step up from your inflatable and the whiplash is a proven design--since you can't find much on two of the ones you're looking at, go with a known quantity.  Don't worry that it doesn't have all the current features--they change every year and probably don't make much difference for us recreational types.  A 14 foot board will glide a ton more that what you've got, so again, I'd got with that over the 12'6" (though at your size, I suspect you'd be able to get comfortable on any of these.  The production Infinity stuff is very durable so if you're largely on flatwater, the Whiplash won't disappoint you.
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CMP_SRF

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2021, 04:28:42 PM »
Good morning...new to the forum, but thought I'd chime in here because went through what it sounds like you're facing.  I'm 6'1" and ~210, sounds like about halfway between you and TallDude :-)
I live in SoCal and most of my flat water paddling starts in Dana Point Harbor.  Usually a couple laps or out to buoys in the ocean.  I paddled a 10'6 Riviera for awhile then got a dedicated SUS board, the Hobie CMLB 9'8".  Bought my wife an Apex R4 board at the same time thinking I'd be able to use when wanting to go fast.  It's 12'6 and 25 3/4" wide; I don't have a good time on that board outside the harbor.  in the Harbor with light wind it's nice even at my height/weight but I'm selling it to get something I'm capable of open ocean on; I *think* it's got the rounded bottom but don't know half as much as the other posters here about that. 

TLDR: I wouldn't discount a good 12'6" at your height/weight on flat water, there are *really* capable boards and you'll open up the choices.

I find myself going to my CMLB for pretty much everything now.  I've also fixed a couple through the fiberglass rock hits from SUSing, it's really not that hard.  Grab some proper sun cure epoxy and painters tape you're 3/4 of the way there.

Have fun, and if you do make that trip to SoCal you can try out a Hobie race board in the Harbor.  Good luck.

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2021, 09:42:05 PM »
Bulky and CMP_SRF: Thanks for your input. I agree. I started out looking at only 14í boards but over time expanded it to include some 12í6 boards because I figured they could still meet my needs, are lighter and I initially found more of them that fit my budget. I've been favoring the Whiplash and I did make an offer on a used 14í Whiplash recently but it got sold to somebody else. If another pops up that I can get for under $2K, I'll probably get it. Meanwhile, thereís a 14í Edge 2.0 and the U-Boat that will fit my budget and probably my needs. Unless there isn't.  I've discovered that until you call and confirm they actually have the board in inventory and can lay eyes on it, it's best not to get your hopes up. Inventories on web sites are not always accurate!

Your words about repairs not being too difficult echoes what others have told me. Really good to hear since I'm sure that's in my future at some point.
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