Author Topic: Seeking feedback before getting a new board  (Read 5102 times)

Area 10

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2020, 03:19:55 AM »
Yeah. 25-26" wide is the sweet spot for most keen amateurs who aren't in the first flush of youth But it depends on the board. The 14x24.5 SIC RS I have is very stable for its width because it has a wide tail and a flat bottom. For pure flat water I'd think that most average-sized middle-aged person would be fine on it as long as they were intermediate level or above and reasonably fit. But if that same board has a pintail and a concave bottom it would be unusable for me. (I also have a 14x26 RS which I use for choppy windy conditions in the sea.)

 27" is indeed heading towards touring board dimensions, if your water is very flat and windless. Hard boards are a lot mote stable than the inflatable you are used to.

Maybe once you have narrowed down your options you could ask about a particular board. Then we could advise you about how stable it is. There's a lot of bravado about stability, so some people will tell you that any fool can stand on a 21" wide board no problem, and that its just a matter of practuce. This is absolute balls. If you are a young kid, maybe. But balance decreases quite steeply with age, so by the time you are well past the age of 40, Anything less than 23" becomes horrible to paddle for most people, and not fast AT ALL. So if you choose a wide-tailed, flat or concave-bottom design, you'll.probably be very haopy somewhere within the 24-26" wide range unless you are physically exceptional, and where within that range you go will be chosen according to your confidence in your own balance capabilities. If after a year you find that the board is too stable for you, you can then move down a size. Certainly, the SIC 14x24.5 is plenty stable for me in flat water and I'm just a typical wobbly middle-aged geezer. So some of these designs are more stable than you'd  think.

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2020, 11:49:22 AM »
Okay, I'll look for hard boards, 14' long, 25-26" wide with bonus "stability" points for boards that incorporates some of the features that TallDude mentioned (recessed deck, boxy rails, wider tails, bottom shape)

I'll post a short list of boards that I'm interested in that meet this criteria and get some feedback from the forum on them. Then when one of the boards goes on sale or is available used, I can get it. 

Sounds like a plan. Thanks everybody! This has been great.


Red Paddle Sport 11' x 30"

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2020, 11:33:30 AM »
While researching the construction and durability aspects of some possible racing boards,  I started to to wonder if a hard board is appropriate for my situation.

Here’s my thinking on this:

-- Racing hard boards are somewhat fragile. Some are more hardy than others but I’ve seen quite a few posts where people have been surprised by how easily their SIC or Starboard or Infinity race board was damaged. And while I've never damaged my windsurfing boards, kayak or Red Paddle board, they are all seem more durable than racing SUP hard boards (from what I've been read).
-- My New Mexico lake has a lot of rocks. Plenty of opportunity to damage a board.
-- Near as I can tell, there isn’t a single SUP shop in New Mexico. And only one or two in the surround states.
-- Some people say the sport is constricting.  So smaller operations may disappear over the next few years. Much like what happened with windsurfing shops back in the days.
-- So if I damage my hard board, it’s likely I’ll have to ship it to someplace like California to have it repaired professionally.
-- According to a popular site that sells SUP boards, their minimum cost for shipping a hard board is $400. Seems kind of high but using that as ballpark for what it might cost to ship a board to have it repaired, it could cost about $800 in shipping cost alone to get my board fixed if it gets damaged. Plus insurance, in case it gets damaged during shipping, right?

So maybe the cost to get a hard board repaired is going to be unreasonably high. Probably considerably higher for me than for somebody who lives where there are several local SUP shops that have experience repairing boards.   

Is my thinking reasonable on this? Or am I being overly concerned about the durability of hard boards?
Red Paddle Sport 11' x 30"

TallDude

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2020, 12:11:47 PM »
You're over thinking it. A piece of tape or a sticker will repair just about any hard board. Those temp repairs become permanent once you forget about them. The boards aren't that fragile. They just can't take hitting the shore, pushed by a wave or smacking the sharp corner of the raingutter on your house. Usually the drive home while on the rack of my car will be enough time in the heat to get any leaks to start to bubble. To actually repair them with some epoxy is super easy. You can use the 20 min clear epoxy you get at the hardware store to do a proper repair. If it's a crack, add a small bandage size piece of fiberglass cloth (same hardware store will have some) over the crack with the same 20 epoxy. A little sanding and you're done. 
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

burchas

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2020, 12:23:23 PM »
Is my thinking reasonable on this? Or am I being overly concerned about the durability of hard boards?

You are making reasonable points. I enjoy hard boards very much so and when conditions are technical they perform a lot better but they could be a pain in the *ss for all the reasons
you mentioned.

If you're after speed and balance training in flat water, you could easily get away with the Red Paddle Elite or the Starboard All-star inflatables. They will give many of the all-around  hard race boards good run for their money in flat water and they are very durable and relatively light. Won't break the bank either. It might be a good in between solution for you until you're confident which way you want to go.

If you decide to go that route, look up "Green Water Sports" here in the forum. You might be able to get a zoner discount on these and he is very good to deal with
in progress...

NMPaddler

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2020, 04:56:20 PM »
burchas: Since all I'm looking for is a board that glides well and feels fast compared to my sluggish 11' x 30" Sport inflatable, do you think a jump to one of the race inflatables (14' Red Paddle or All Star Airline or Naish Maliko) would give me that feeling?

After I read your comment,  I searched and found a SUPboarder review comparing a 14' Starboards All Star carbon to their 14' Airline inflatable. And you're right, the inflatable held up surprisingly well on flat water - which is all I care about.


TallDude: Sounds simple when you put it like that.  :).  And it's true that if I had confidence I could repair common dings/cracks, then I would feel more comfortable buying a hard board.

But how come the process wasn't that simple in any of the repair-related posts in the forum that I scanned through after reading your comment? I noticed a lot of those fixes were quite a bit more complicated. Good news is that I'm starting to see that a lot of things can be fixed in a garage. But learning how to do SUP repairs by starting with my $2,500 board is a tough way to learn I gotta say.
 
I'll continue to read up on how to do repairs. Things are always less scary once you understand them. By the way, I noticed your name showed up in an awful lot of those posts. You obviously have a lot of experience in doing repairs. Is that a hobby or are you in the industry? Either way, thanks for the feedback on repairs.
Red Paddle Sport 11' x 30"

PonoBill

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2020, 05:21:50 PM »
The simple answer about repairs is that there are two ways to go: Version 1. Invisible repair, work that looks like the board was never damaged. the pinnacle of this AFAIK is sometime contributor eDubz, who can make a horrific amount of damage look like it never happened. I've seen some of TallDudes work and it's in the same neighborhood of high quality, good workmanship. Version 2. It works, I'm done. This is my jam. I can do pretty good work. I make strong stuff out of composite and some of my work doesn't look completely shitty. I rarely paint my repairs, and when I do I don't worry about color matching. Most times these days I slap on some aluminum tape and call it good, unless the damage is structural. People like Admin have little seizures when they see my taped-up boards, but the repair adds no weight at all, takes almost no time or materials, and is as permanent as any pro job--it just looks like hell.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

burchas

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2020, 08:36:17 PM »
[After I read your comment,  I searched and found a SUPboarder review comparing a 14' Starboards All Star carbon to their 14' Airline inflatable. And you're right, the inflatable held up surprisingly well on flat water - which is all I care about.

I think you got your answer as far as speed goes. As for the feel, that's very subjective.
I still have the Red Elite 14x25, see review here: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,30828.0.html, I just don't ever use it. I guess that's an answer.
in progress...

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2020, 03:34:28 PM »

PonoBill: Thanks. My take away is that if I damage my hard board, there’s a pretty good chance I’ll be able to repair it myself with a little help from the forum. Functionally at least. Might not be pretty. That works for me. I'm more comfortable with the idea of buying a hard board now that I know a little about how to repair them.

Burchas: Thanks for the link. Nice review you did on the Red Paddle Elite.


Here are the hard boards I'm considering. All have most of the stability features TallDude mentioned (recessed deck, boxy rails, wider tails, bottom shape).
  — SIC RS 14 x 26”
  — Infinity Blackfish: 14 x 25”
  — 2020: Starboard All Star 14 x 24.5” . Not a 2021 model as they apparently have narrower tails and reports say they are less stable.

Any thoughts on which is the most durable?


Red Paddle Sport 11' x 30"

PonoBill

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2020, 05:00:53 PM »
Durabilitywise I'd say #1 is the infinity, followed closely by SIC. The AllStars are generally flat out racing boards, super light, and quite fragile. That may have changed in the years since I turned an Allstar into junk that I wouldn't sell to anyone--I gave it to a friend who wanted a project--but I don't think so. AllStars are about performance first. they don't even mention durability on their website.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Area 10

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2020, 02:06:27 AM »
The 2020 SIC RS boards are made in the same factory as the Infinity boards, using a similar construction, so will be similar in durability (and are both full PVC sandwich I think, which is what you want).  The Infinity uses a brushed carbon finish which tends to hide dings and scrapes better - but mainly because a brushed carbon finish looks well-used even when new.

IMO the Starboard raceboards are built with the racer in mind who is happy to buy a new board every season, and almost throw the old one away. They tend to be quite expensive for the materials that are used to construct them.

LoudounSUP

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2020, 04:56:33 AM »

PonoBill: Thanks. My take away is that if I damage my hard board, there’s a pretty good chance I’ll be able to repair it myself with a little help from the forum. Functionally at least. Might not be pretty. That works for me. I'm more comfortable with the idea of buying a hard board now that I know a little about how to repair them.

Burchas: Thanks for the link. Nice review you did on the Red Paddle Elite.


Here are the hard boards I'm considering. All have most of the stability features TallDude mentioned (recessed deck, boxy rails, wider tails, bottom shape).
  — SIC RS 14 x 26”
  — Infinity Blackfish: 14 x 25”
  — 2020: Starboard All Star 14 x 24.5” . Not a 2021 model as they apparently have narrower tails and reports say they are less stable.

Any thoughts on which is the most durable?

I'm interested how the "new" NSP Carolina Pro also compares to this group? It appears to contain several of the same attributes as the listed group.
SUP in Nordic Virginia
2019 SIC RS Air Glide 14x28

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2020, 06:49:04 AM »
Its a full-on dugout, and personally I'd avoid one until you've trued a dugout. Some people love them (mostly those who never fall in) but others hate them. They are difficult to get back in after a fall and they may fill up with water like a big bath if you do. But if you sre a keen racer with superb skills they can be a devastating weapon.

The NSP boards tend to be fast but roll side to side a bit. Thus is how their team riders like them.

The construction looks to be less durable than a full PVC sandwich.

But I haven't paddled this board.

burchas

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2020, 09:26:23 AM »
Here are the hard boards I'm considering. All have most of the stability features TallDude mentioned (recessed deck, boxy rails, wider tails, bottom shape).
  — SIC RS 14 x 26”
  — Infinity Blackfish: 14 x 25”
  — 2020: Starboard All Star 14 x 24.5” . Not a 2021 model as they apparently have narrower tails and reports say they are less stable.

Any thoughts on which is the most durable?

It's interesting that all the boards you chose are compromised by the design. If I'm going by what you posted, you're looking for a board that give you "that feeling".
Since you are only dealing with flat water you can do a lot better imo. I wouldn't be to concern about stability on flat water on anything wider than a 25" wide.
especially since you have a more SUP optimized built.

It doesn't take a lot to feel stable on flat water. I went from a 32" wide inflatable to a 27" hard board and felt at home very quickly and that was mixed conditions, not lake.
I rode some versions of all these boards you posted from 23" wide to 26" in flat water and none felt as good as a pure flat water board in terms of what you've described imo.

If I was in your place and on the market for a flat water board I would definitely consider the Speedboard SS 14x25. I have close knowledge of the design and it has a lot
going on with a hull similar to a rounded flared rails Canoe but with a deep tapering concave running from the standing area all the way to the back. Dugout standing area
almost at water level and a 16" wide tail. At only 21lbs, you'll be hard pressed to find anything lighter on the market at these dimensions. I'm pretty sure it has considerable
less wetted surface than any of the boards mentioned which is what you would perceive as glide you were looking for.

As for the durability and built, I doubt you'll find better and lighter built than that on the market being manufactured by Nelo. I might have a chance hands on one to demo.
Little tricky with all that's going on.
in progress...

TallDude

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Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2020, 11:12:04 AM »
Just a few more things to consider. The SIC is almost all white which is the best color for your generally hot NM temperatures. The EPS foam off-gases when it's heated and that gas expands pushes out on the board. The boards all come with a one way Goretex breather vent to allow the gas to escape, but not allow water in. If the board gets even hotter, the EPS foam can melt and colapse. The Infinity boards are mostly black, so they can get very hot. I've painted two black CF race boards white just so I wouldn't have to worry about leaving them in the sun for a while. The inflatables just pop when they get that hot.
Another thing is the boards waterline will be different in freshwater vs saltwater. The saltwater is denser so the board will be buoyant. Basically the board will sit lower in the water, and may feel a little less stable in freshwater. You're pretty far South so the salinity levels in the lake you paddle in might be higher than usual?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 11:16:59 AM by TallDude »
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

 


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