Author Topic: What's the next board?  (Read 1544 times)

B-Walnut

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What's the next board?
« on: October 06, 2020, 08:00:35 AM »
Hello,

I'm a newer SUP surfer living in Oregon and surfing the Oregon coast most of the year, SoCal for a month or so in the winter. I've only seen a handful of other paddlers at the coast and it's always in passing so I never get to chat gear much. My friends are all surfers. So, I'm wondering if anyone can fill me in a bit on board quivers and what to look at next for progression?

I caught my first waves on a Hala 11' inflatable. Didn't really click for me until I took the inflatable to some random breaks near Malibu and was able to ride down the line. Fell in love with it when I was out there.

Got a great deal on a starboard blend element. 9'8"x30 145 liters in starlight construction and that's what I've been riding for the last year. Splurged recently and got a black project surge paddle which I'm crazy about. Eliminated my back pain immediately. I, personally, have really enjoyed the board. I seem to get about 30ish waves in a session. "Long rides after catching impossibly green waves." according to my surfer friends.

Since I don't know any paddleboarders though, I'm wondering if this is the right board to be on? Also looking for advice on what kind of board to look at next? The only board in the starboard line that has my interest at all is the Pro. I like to ride chest to head high waves. Any bigger and I have a hard time getting out.  I'm 5'6", 180lbs. Also interested in foiling, but don't feel any urgency to get into that.

Last, my background comes from kitesurfing on 5'1-5'3" tomo firewire boards. I'm still getting used to the slower reaction time of the paddleboard but honestly spend far more time paddling than kiting now. I know I won't get anything as snappy as a kiteboard, but I wonder about something that is still reasonably stable while getting a little more responsive as I continue to progress.

Thanks!

Dusk Patrol

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2020, 12:48:40 PM »
Hey B-W and welcome.

Even as a new SUP surfer it sounds like your making the most of it!  Cool. 

It looks like Starboard has promoted the name "Blend" from its original one board (11'2"x30) model name to apply instead to its line of all-rounders.  In your case a Blend Element. The Element itself has been a long-running and respected board shape, but grounded in early longboard derived shape. So will tend to surf like one. 

So the low hanging fruit answer to your question is the move from what you're on now would be to something with some more turn friendly shaping to it.  I'd guess the chest - head high that you like would be better on a turning board.  The Starboard Pro is extremely so. I've personally not surfed one (probably can't!), but its more for thrashing cutbacks than cruising.  The Wide Point series (staying with SB) are an intermediate step, giving you the stability you're asking about, at least during your next learning stages.  The basic shape is replicated across a bunch of different brands.     

Your OR and CA wave types, and your preference for volume and riding style will inform your answer.  'Quiver' implies more than 2  ;D       


« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 12:54:39 PM by Dusk Patrol »
Bullet V2; RS 14x26; JL Destroyer 9'8; BluePlanet 9'4

TallDude

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2020, 05:00:43 PM »


Last, my background comes from kitesurfing on 5'1-5'3" tomo firewire boards. I'm still getting used to the slower reaction time of the paddleboard but honestly spend far more time paddling than kiting now. I know I won't get anything as snappy as a kiteboard, but I wonder about something that is still reasonably stable while getting a little more responsive as I continue to progress.

Thanks!
Welcome to the Zone. I got an L41 ST (split tail) over a year ago and it was a game changer. My surfing improved immediately. The board is Simmon's shape, but short. Kirk is a NorCal Santa Cruz shaper and I've been thinking about getting his more Tomo shaped 'S5' or 'TV Dinner'. Great construction, stoker board. You talk directly to Kirk about a custom. It'll probably cost less than the SB. Check out his boards.  http://www.l41surfcraft.com/models-sup

« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 05:03:43 PM by TallDude »
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

B-Walnut

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2020, 09:09:03 PM »
So the low hanging fruit answer to your question is the move from what you're on now would be to something with some more turn friendly shaping to it.  I'd guess the chest - head high that you like would be better on a turning board.  The Starboard Pro is extremely so. I've personally not surfed one (probably can't!), but its more for thrashing cutbacks than cruising.  The Wide Point series (staying with SB) are an intermediate step, giving you the stability you're asking about, at least during your next learning stages.  The basic shape is replicated across a bunch of different brands.     

Your OR and CA wave types, and your preference for volume and riding style will inform your answer.  'Quiver' implies more than 2  ;D     

Yep, the "blend element" falls into the wide point series now. I think it would be fun to get my hands on the pocket rocket for a demo. Seems like it would give me additional maneuverability while only dropping 10l of volume.

Any other brands you'd recommend?

B-Walnut

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2020, 09:10:46 PM »
Welcome to the Zone. I got an L41 ST (split tail) over a year ago and it was a game changer. My surfing improved immediately. The board is Simmon's shape, but short. Kirk is a NorCal Santa Cruz shaper and I've been thinking about getting his more Tomo shaped 'S5' or 'TV Dinner'. Great construction, stoker board. You talk directly to Kirk about a custom. It'll probably cost less than the SB. Check out his boards.  http://www.l41surfcraft.com/models-sup

Ah I do like the look of those. Definitely reminds me of my Tomo's. Would be easy to pick one up on my way down to SoCal if I decide to splurge...

Dusk Patrol

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2020, 10:09:37 PM »
Quote from: B-Walnut link=topic=36599.msg421829#msg421829   
[/quote
Any other brands you'd recommend?

I’m a fan of good construction, so in addition to L41 that TD recommends, look at Jimmy Lewis (Super Frank, Destroyer, World Wide, Super Tech), Infinity (RNB  -Round Nose Blur), Sunova ( many shapes), Naish (Hokua, Mad Dogs), Blue Planet (carbon All Good, Sweet Spot)
That should keep you busy  8)
Bullet V2; RS 14x26; JL Destroyer 9'8; BluePlanet 9'4

Badger

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2020, 04:42:27 AM »
At 180 lbs, you'll want to keep the volume below 130 liters. Anything over that and you will have difficulty sinking the rail.

Sunova has some nice shapes. I've been riding the Flow for years and it's still my favorite board. It's a great all around shape that will surf anything from knee high to double overhead. I also have the 7'6 JL Super Frank. It's fun on clean waist to chest days.
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

B-Walnut

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2020, 07:20:14 AM »
At 180 lbs, you'll want to keep the volume below 130 liters. Anything over that and you will have difficulty sinking the rail.

Small details like this are things I haven't heard of and concepts I don't especially understand yet. I know that I like a hard board over the inflatable I tried, but I don't know the details of why. Mainly that the hard board feels faster.

Do you know of any videos or literature that talks about things like this? Kitesurfing doesn't take volume into consideration much since you are always so lit up by the kite. From my novice perspective I view SUP volume as equivalent to stability. I'm assuming that I'm right in some ways and wrong in others?

Badger

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 07:46:42 AM »
At 180 lbs, you'll want to keep the volume below 130 liters. Anything over that and you will have difficulty sinking the rail.

Small details like this are things I haven't heard of and concepts I don't especially understand yet. I know that I like a hard board over the inflatable I tried, but I don't know the details of why. Mainly that the hard board feels faster.

Do you know of any videos or literature that talks about things like this? Kitesurfing doesn't take volume into consideration much since you are always so lit up by the kite. From my novice perspective I view SUP volume as equivalent to stability. I'm assuming that I'm right in some ways and wrong in others?

Too much volume can actually cause less stability because you are higher off the water and the board gets pushed around by every little wave. Having the rails submerged helps cradle the board allowing it to be less affected by the water around it. It also gives you a slightly lower center of gravity. Ultimately, on a performance surf SUP you want the deck to be even with the surface of the water or just slightly above it.

Stability is mostly derived from length, width and board shape. Volume is calculated by your weight.


« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 07:59:47 AM by Badger »
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

B-Walnut

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 07:58:20 AM »
Too much volume can actually cause less stability because you are higher off the water and the board gets pushed around by every little wave. Having the rails submerged helps cradle the board allowing it to be less affected by the water around it. It also gives you a slightly lower center of gravity. Ultimately, on a performance surf SUP you want the deck to be even with the surface of the water or just slightly above it.

Stability is mostly derived from length, width and board shape.

Clear explanation, greatly appreciated!

sflinux

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2020, 10:54:45 AM »
Welcome to the forum.
SUP is the perfect complement to kitesurfing.
Blend 9'8" x 30" 145L [gf=1.77] {82kg}
In my opinion, SUPs feel like a surfboard 1' shorter.  So your 9'8" SUP would feel like a 8'8" longboard.     I would keep the Blend for the days you want a longboard style.  There is nothing wrong with a 9'8", a lot of my older friends like that size. 
For days, when the lineup is crowded, and the waves are top to bottom, a shorter lighter board would be my pick for a more short board style of riding.  With a smaller board you will be among the lineup, and not outside mowing down guys on your way in.  (Note: Ideally you would paddle to find your own peak away from surfers as SUPS are very dangerous in the impact zone).  On crowded days, I like to sit a tad inside and pick up the ones that get through.  A smaller SUP requires good technique, and once you learn that technique, will improve your overall riding on your Blend, something that might not ever happen if you don't push yourself to ride smaller boards.
The Starboard Pro will give you that shortboard step up feel.  In terms of surfing progression, I would think a guild factor (gf)  (volume to weight ratio) of 1.5 (~123L) would be a good step down in performance.  Gf= 1.5 is considered an advanced intermediate.  When I was learning I tried to go from a gf =1.67 to 1.40 and I found I had bit off more than I could chew, and had to go back up to 1.52 to quickly progress. Once you get to a gf of 1.5, the future drops in volume will be smaller and more noticeable.  As you go down in board size, you lose glide, and have to catch waves closer to the peak.  Your paddle stroke will be shorter, the cadence faster, which is good for balance and fitness.
Starboard Pro
8'7" x 29.5" 135L [gf=1.65] {too close to your Blend imo}
8' x 29" 121L [gf=1.48]
The 8'7" and 8' Starboard Pro will feel like a 7'7" and 7' step up surfboard imo. 
8'3" x 30" 135L Pocket Rocket [gf=1.65] {too close to your Blend imo}
I would recommend the 8' Starboard Pro [gf=1.48] over the 135L pocket rocket [gf=1.65].  10L difference from going from 1.77 to 1.65 is not very noticeable and can potentially slow your learning curve.  If you go starboard, I would recommend the carbon, as it will last forever. 
If you want to get closer to the Tomo feel, you'll definitely like L41.   Lots of guys have tried his boards on this forum.  I ride Kirk's butterknife surfboard, which is kind of like a blown up (big guy's) TOMO Vanguard shape (shrunken down TV Dinner SUP), and it is by far my favorite board for strapless kitesurfing.  All of his shapes are cool and offer a unique ride.  For e.x. the TV Dinner (7'4" x 29" 120L) is the closest thing I have tried to the feeling of a shortboard (7'4" SUP -> 6'4" surfboard, 6'10" SUP -> 5'10" surfboard).  It's wide tail gives it speed, but it is still able to sit deep in the pocket.  Head high waves are no problem with this board.  When the lineup gets crowded, this is my preferred board.  You should also check out the S5, but I have no experience with this board which I suspect will offer more aggressive top to bottom short board style carving.
For BluePlanet, at your weight I would recommend the 126L [gf=1.54]  All Good over the 140L Sweet Spot [gf=1.71].  The plus of BluePlanet is they will ship to the nearest airport, and comes with board bag.
But if you want to find your boards on the used market, I would look for a board under 9' with a volume of around 123L for your next board.  With L41, you generally ride them 1' shorter than your typical SUP.
 ""Long rides after catching impossibly green waves." according to my surfer friends."  The benefit of a bigger board like a SUP is you can catch waves early, when they are still unbroken.  The downside is that beginner SUP surfers may not understand the "right of way" of a surf lineup, and may snake waves without even knowing it, which can cause tension in the lineup.  Riding a smaller SUP, helps to keep balance in the lineup, and is generally safer for everyone.
Soft boards generally have soft rails and the shape is not stiff, so less reactive.  Softboard fins are generally flexy so unreactive too.  A softboard will have more flex creating more the rocker, which will slow the board down.  With a hardboard, you will feel the contours of the rails, and you have the option to try different fin sizes, fin shapes, and fin flex patterns to change the feel of the ride.  Both rails, fins, and tail shape can have a huge effect on the ride.  Nevertheless whatever next board you pick, go with your gut and enjoy the learning process. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 11:57:45 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

B-Walnut

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2020, 02:09:32 PM »
Welcome to the forum.
SUP is the perfect complement to kitesurfing.
Blend 9'8" x 30" 145L [gf=1.77] {82kg}
In my opinion, SUPs feel like a surfboard 1' shorter.  So your 9'8" SUP would feel like a 8'8" longboard.     I would keep the Blend for the days you want a longboard style.  There is nothing wrong with a 9'8", a lot of my older friends like that size. 
For days, when the lineup is crowded, and the waves are top to bottom, a shorter lighter board would be my pick for a more short board style of riding.  With a smaller board you will be among the lineup, and not outside mowing down guys on your way in.  (Note: Ideally you would paddle to find your own peak away from surfers as SUPS are very dangerous in the impact zone).  On crowded days, I like to sit a tad inside and pick up the ones that get through.  A smaller SUP requires good technique, and once you learn that technique, will improve your overall riding on your Blend, something that might not ever happen if you don't push yourself to ride smaller boards.
The Starboard Pro will give you that shortboard step up feel.  In terms of surfing progression, I would think a guild factor (gf)  (volume to weight ratio) of 1.5 (~123L) would be a good step down in performance.  Gf= 1.5 is considered an advanced intermediate.  When I was learning I tried to go from a gf =1.67 to 1.40 and I found I had bit off more than I could chew, and had to go back up to 1.52 to quickly progress. Once you get to a gf of 1.5, the future drops in volume will be smaller and more noticeable.  As you go down in board size, you lose glide, and have to catch waves closer to the peak.  Your paddle stroke will be shorter, the cadence faster, which is good for balance and fitness.
Starboard Pro
8'7" x 29.5" 135L [gf=1.65] {too close to your Blend imo}
8' x 29" 121L [gf=1.48]
The 8'7" and 8' Starboard Pro will feel like a 7'7" and 7' step up surfboard imo. 
8'3" x 30" 135L Pocket Rocket [gf=1.65] {too close to your Blend imo}
I would recommend the 8' Starboard Pro [gf=1.48] over the 135L pocket rocket [gf=1.65].  10L difference from going from 1.77 to 1.65 is not very noticeable and can potentially slow your learning curve.  If you go starboard, I would recommend the carbon, as it will last forever. 
If you want to get closer to the Tomo feel, you'll definitely like L41.   Lots of guys have tried his boards on this forum.  I ride Kirk's butterknife surfboard, which is kind of like a blown up (big guy's) TOMO Vanguard shape (shrunken down TV Dinner SUP), and it is by far my favorite board for strapless kitesurfing.  All of his shapes are cool and offer a unique ride.  For e.x. the TV Dinner (7'4" x 29" 120L) is the closest thing I have tried to the feeling of a shortboard (7'4" SUP -> 6'4" surfboard, 6'10" SUP -> 5'10" surfboard).  It's wide tail gives it speed, but it is still able to sit deep in the pocket.  Head high waves are no problem with this board.  When the lineup gets crowded, this is my preferred board.  You should also check out the S5, but I have no experience with this board which I suspect will offer more aggressive top to bottom short board style carving.
For BluePlanet, at your weight I would recommend the 126L [gf=1.54]  All Good over the 140L Sweet Spot [gf=1.71].  The plus of BluePlanet is they will ship to the nearest airport, and comes with board bag.
But if you want to find your boards on the used market, I would look for a board under 9' with a volume of around 123L for your next board.  With L41, you generally ride them 1' shorter than your typical SUP.
 ""Long rides after catching impossibly green waves." according to my surfer friends."  The benefit of a bigger board like a SUP is you can catch waves early, when they are still unbroken.  The downside is that beginner SUP surfers may not understand the "right of way" of a surf lineup, and may snake waves without even knowing it, which can cause tension in the lineup.  Riding a smaller SUP, helps to keep balance in the lineup, and is generally safer for everyone.
Soft boards generally have soft rails and the shape is not stiff, so less reactive.  Softboard fins are generally flexy so unreactive too.  A softboard will have more flex creating more the rocker, which will slow the board down.  With a hardboard, you will feel the contours of the rails, and you have the option to try different fin sizes, fin shapes, and fin flex patterns to change the feel of the ride.  Both rails, fins, and tail shape can have a huge effect on the ride.  Nevertheless whatever next board you pick, go with your gut and enjoy the learning process.

Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard of guild factor before.

Do you have any opinion on sunova boards? The Speeed and Creek are interesting to me based on reviews and design. The Speeed specifically, lots of people talk about really sizing it down? Thoughts?

Badger

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2020, 03:31:43 PM »
I've surfed the Speeed a few times and didn't like it because it's the type of board that surfs best off the tail. I prefer boards that allow you to turn from the middle of the board as well as off the tail. I also didn't like the domed deck and the wide nose.

The Creek appears to be an improved version of the Speeed and may have addressed the things I didn't like about the Speeed that I mentioned above.

As I said in an earlier post, the Flow is my favorite board in the line. Nice curved rails for turning, flat deck and five fin set up are strong points for me.

The first thing you want to look at when shopping for a board is the volume.  If the volume doesn't fit your weight, go with a different length or model.

I weigh 175 lbs without my wetsuit and my preferred volume range is about 110 to 120 liters for boards in the 8 ft range. Advanced riders might like a little less volume for that weight and beginners might want a little more.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 04:13:29 PM by Badger »
Jimmy Lewis Super Frank  7'6 X 31"  115L
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Hypr Gun  10'6 X 28"  148L
Me - 6'0" - 175lbs - 63yo

sflinux

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2020, 07:23:14 AM »
If considering Sunova, be sure to also check out:
https://genration.com/collections/boards
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

BigZ

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Re: What's the next board?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2020, 09:02:15 AM »

Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard of guild factor before.

Do you have any opinion on sunova boards? The Speeed and Creek are interesting to me based on reviews and design. The Speeed specifically, lots of people talk about really sizing it down? Thoughts?

Although not the only, the guild factor is important  to consider when selecting surf SUPs.

The bottom line is that SUP surfing is a balancing act between stability when paddling around and setting up for waves and performance when riding the waves.

You want the smallest board that allows you to stand and move around between the sets with some (not too much :)) level of comfort.

In my opinion, when you learn, you should pick the board that makes stability challenging but still feasible. Otherwise you donít progress.

In my experience, going over 1.5 guild factor is not beneficial even for a beginner. As you progress you should aim at getting to around 1.2 rather quickly. This seems to be a sweet point for an aspiring intermediate rider. The 1.2 boards donít sink but settle nicely with rails and some of the deck submerged, which in fact increases stability.

Unless you are  fit and committed going below 1.2 may be more challenging.



 


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