Author Topic: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here  (Read 10559 times)

surfcowboy

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Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« on: August 03, 2020, 06:46:31 PM »
Alright, another long-ass post from the Cowboy. First, thanks to all who pitch in on these. I truly appreciate it and try to write stuff up clearly in exchange for the knowledge I get for fun and for free here. (Hopefully these are educational for other folks and entertaining for others.) This is a super confusing process. I tried to gather this into something coherent but it evolved over a few days as I wrote it so bear with me if there’s repetition and call me out if I’m trying to fit too much into one wing slot as you will see there’s some leeway on what I am buying.

I’m considering some life changes (good ones) and so I want to speed up my foil progression. Part of that acceleration is... more gear! (right?) lol But seriously, as Erik A from the Progression Project Podcast says, “new gear teaches you things.” I’m not hitting the limits of my current wing yet, but I know that I’m limited in certain conditions now and assume that will only become more common. Rather than not go out, I’d rather have lower lift/faster wing options to use. That, with the long lead time on most Gong orders, and my smaller physical size so there’s less opportunity to try others gear, have made me step up my timeline more than I might.

Here is the main info:

Rider - 5’8” (172cm), 135lbs (63kg), 53 year old male. “Decent” shape, (depending on who I’m standing next to) but decidedly below average endurance. Lazy fitness habits, but better food habits is probably fair to say. Surf 1-2 times a week. (This is part of what will be changing. I will be surfing far more soon.)

Use cases: FoilSUP Surfing, ProneFoil Surf (limited TBD) Wind Winging (again, limited now, but likely more common in winter and spring so want to consider it lightly.)

And now the objectives, numbered for ease of tracking the thread. I’m thinking I would like to have a quiver with a total of 3-4 wings. I’ll post the Gong wing line in a reply. If you know Gong stuff, you can skip the followup post with the specs and just shoot an answer/guess.

Big Beginner and small wave “fun” wing - got this covered, Rise XL

First Step Down -  Either main day to day foil, or intermediate step on the way down.

Second Step Down - Maybe optional, if First can be my day to day, but this would be my main workaday foil if I need a step in the learning curve.

High Aspect Downwind/Pump, not really needed but seems fun and interesting.


Starting Quiver: Rise XL, Pro M (Not sure where the Pro M fits yet, I’ll have it here in a week or two, thanks Thatspec!)

Ok so here’s your chance to stop reading and reply. Feel free to just offer wingspans and/or area ranges. Or... choose your own adventure and dive into my brain below and the whole Gong line. lol

1 - First Step Down: “Go to” foil for everyday riding knee to chest high waves in SoCal. I love the XL for ankle to thigh high. But it feels like as I progress a lot of my SoCal riding will be knee to chest which seems just outside the XL’s range for my size. I’ll likely never foil bigger waves.

Candidates: Rise M or L, Pro M, or L

My thoughts: My newly purchased Pro M “seems” like it might work? (It’s similarity to the Kai and Takuma 100 in size makes me think that it might work since a lot of you learned on those.) My only question is will I need a smaller step like staying in the Rise series which is slower, lowering lift but not picking up speed while I learn? Or do I just “man up” and get used to hauling a$$ down the line? ;) If Rise, or Pro, what is the best size for me to step down to? (L Pro, or Rise M?) I’m dropping 21cm (8in) and bumping to a faster profile with the M Pro. I’m really asking, is that a mistake or likely a do-able/advisable step?

I’m fine to buy another interim wing if it makes learning easier. That 45cm mast was a great investment imho. I like easy progression, I never lose more than 6” at a time between my surf boards as I progress. (12” on SUP.)

2 - Second Step Down: This is sort of optional. If the consensus is that the Pro M will be a good step down for me right away I might skip this. But if not, I’m assuming that the Pro M will be this position. But I do wonder if for ease of use something “L” is needed of any series? (Is this where the H/A comes in?)

Candidates: Pro M, Pro L

3 - Down Winder/HA: (Also, Pump foil for flat water goofing off.) Ah, and here we go. I’m not really ready for a Veloce, but at Gong prices I’d like to have it here if I can. So, L, XL, or XXL for a guy my size to downwind and wing? Can I surf this thing? Will it wing? etc.

Assume all of this is in the surf for now. I know I’ll add a wing this year and mix it up a bit. But I know that there will be overlap and I can add again once my wing progression is in position so assume this is my first high aspect pump surf wing for this pick.

SoCal has “fake” downwind conditions. We don’t get Maui swell but guys do DW here. Not giant swell, but long period, so moving along at a clip. This is largely theoretical but I’d like to know and might throw it in just to play with it and sell later. (Or grow into.) It also seems like whatever this size is it will be useful for wind wings in certain conditions.

On DW, does my XL cover me here? I’ve heard of guys using M200’s which are similar size and shape. If so, then should I instead just get a high aspect wing in my “regular” sizes to feel the difference? This is the least likely purchase and might delay this if you think this is more than 6 months out in my learning curve. The recovery from breaching does pique my interest though.

Candidates: My existing Rise XL? Pro XL or XXL? Veloce XL/XXL? What do you folks think would work for my size?

Extra points: If I wanted to surf a Veloce, but am not an expert, would a size L be solid for that?

Stabilizers / Tails

I have a Rise/Curve 45cm tail. I’ll likely add at least one more tail from Gong and then make a couple of simple variations (flat with a different couple of lengths and chords) Based on the wings above, what tail to add to the mix?

I assume I’d add the Rise 40cm to my kit this round. If I get a Veloce wing I’ll add a matching stab and likely use surf stab at first to tame it a bit. Do I need more than a couple of options?


Summing up, really the overall idea is to end up with 3 to 5 wings to play with while I figure this out. I’ll pare down what I don’t love or maybe I’ll sell it all at the end and go Axis or Go Foil, CloudIX or whatever gets good next. But for the price of a 1 or 2 wing set I will have tried a ton of foil options and learned a ton.

(All companies need to build a US rental quiver by the way. Mailing out wings with a return shipping box & label for a month at a time.)

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2020, 06:51:33 PM »
Gong foil sizes for reference and general forum info dump:

Copied from Gong site, so no, I didn’t all of a sudden start speaking in translated English. ;) Their site is maddening as they don't have a comparison chart that I can find so I put it all here for faster reference.

Rise/Classic/Surf

The M has a wingspan of 70 cm for a (projected) area of 1258cm2 (1453cm2 developed), and its volume is 2,0L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,0cm thick.

The L has a wingspan of 80cm for a (projected) area of 1643cm2 (1926cm2 developed), and its volume is 3,12L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,5cm thick.

The XL has a wingspan of 90cm for a (projected) surface area of 1844cm2 (2137cm2 developed), and its volume is 3,60L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,5cm thick.

The XXL has a wingspan of 100cm for a (projected) area of 2175cm2 (2487cm2 developed), and its volume is 4,26L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,5cm thick.

Cowboy note: I own the XL, my first wing. Wondering if that’s all I need in this range? Do I get a large Rise or just move to Pro series and fill in there for my surf foils?

Curve/Pro

Surf Foil Wings, super fast and agile, are the Wings for the Pros.

To understand the range, we have kept the sizes M / L / XL / XXL that will guide you in your choice making. Our shaper Patrice Guénolé has exacerbated the characteristics of each size to radicalize them. The small Wings are smaller and the XXL is giant.

The M is 69cm in Pro against 70cm in classic, and its volume is 1.2L against 2,0L on the classic! Almost half (74%), which means optimum penetration and crazy speed. The area is also down sharply, but only 34%. So, you have much finer profiles.

The L is 77cm in Pro against 80cm in classic, and its volume is 1.6L against 3.1L on the classic! Almost half (95%), which means optimum penetration and crazy speed. The area is also down sharply, but only 42%. So, you have much finer profiles.

The XL is 92cm in Pro against 90cm in classic, and its volume is 2.5L against 3.6L on the classic! Almost half (43%), which means optimum penetration and crazy speed. The area is also down sharply, but only 12%. So, you have much finer profiles.

The XXL is 120cm in Pro against 100cm in classic, and its volume is 4.2L against 4.3L on the classic! Only 2% difference. On the other hand, what radically differs from the XXL classic is its surface which increases by 12%. You have a much finer profile and more lift which means you will fly much earlier.

Cowboy note: Have the M Curve Pro on order from Thatspec. The question here is do I need a fill in size? Specifically something like the L? Also, I’m assuming the XL Pro is too close to my XL, but I’ve seen Obx keeping his XL Pro and Veloce but I’m assuming that’s because they are drastically different wings. Do these follow the same huge difference in style?


Veloce / High Aspect

To understand the range, we have two sizes of wings and, therefore, foils:

The Veloce M has a wingspan of 71cm, 1,000cm2, and a volume of 0,6L. The surface area is small with a very thin profile of 1,3cm thick. This high performances front wing is designed for people under 75kg and/or with a high level and strong wind.

The Veloce L has a wingspan of 82cm, 1,300cm2 and a volume of 0,94L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 1,5cm thick.  This front wing aims for pure high performance for riders weighing around 85kg or in strong wind.

 The Veloce XL has a wingspan of 94cm, 1,600cm2 and a volume of 1,35L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 1,7cm thick. This front wing is for riders around weighing 95kg with a good level and for all other smaller riders that want to glide with lift.

The Veloce XXL has a wingspan of 107cm, 1,900cm2 and a volume of 1,7L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 1,8cm thick. This front wing is suitable for people weighing more than 100kg and/or light wind


Stabilizers / Tails

Rise / Curve (Surf & Pro)

Summarized as generally a good all around shape. Originally designed for use with Rise and Pro wings.

40cm (15.75 in) : carving and high speeds.
45cm (17.75 in) : agility and versatility
55cm (21.65 in): maximum lift and stability

Veloce / High Aspect

The Veloce 43cm wingspan, 280cm2, and its volume is 0,08L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 0,6cm thick. This high performance stab is designed for riders under 75kg and/or with a big level and strong wind.

The Veloce 47cm wingspan, 330cm2, and its volume is 0,12L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 0,7cm thick. This high performance stab is designed for riders under (sic, assume this means “over”) 75kg and/or with a high level and strong wind.

Fishman

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2020, 08:07:26 PM »
I probably shouldn't say this but ah, you forgot the kite stabilizers which some of the more skilled guys really like using with the rise and curve both in Surf and Wingadingen. They have two sizes 40 and 45. The 40cm kite with your Med pro is what Gong team rider Burrel uses
SupSurfMachine 9'9" longboard
SupSurfMachine  8'2" funboard

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 08:38:27 PM »
Ah yes! Thx man. I was figuring that would be beyond my skills but something to consider for sure.

My next post will be me satirizing the length of that post.  ;D

Let that me a lesson to those who want to write a book. Just a little every day will get you there before you know it.

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2020, 07:20:50 AM »
Ok, getting info from PM’s and direct that the M Pro will likely be a go to foil once I’m ready. Def for prone, maybe for SUP.

I’m still curious about why the big difference between those since it’s really just 7lbs difference between my prone and SUP gear but I’m assuming there are other reasons.

Also, thatspec offers (and this was my guess) that XXLs would mostly be a novelty for me. (Maybe a Veloce down downwind if I don’t adopt the wing?) so limiting to L and XL options for first step down and H/A option. Trimming the list.

A key question for me is whether a smaller Rise (slower) wing would be a good step down? And if so, would an L be over powered? Or do I go L Pro as the next step down? Either of those would be easy to sell so I guess I’m mostly concerned with Rise vs Pro for first step down wing.

For high aspect I have to go see what y’all are wingover in Axis thread and see if I can get a feel for that. I know prone guys are riding some pretty small wings but they are all fairly advanced. Might wait on that one and get some tamer foils to play with for now.

All you Gong guys get ready for Cowboy’s Foil Sale this Fall once I get a feel for what I can and can’t ride.

Side note, i joke about it, but I actually respect Gong’s Franco-centric language on their site. Their display of French water culture in their marketing is really cool as well. It’d be easy now that they are bigger to just show Maui all the time or whatever.

Thatspec

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2020, 09:39:03 AM »


I’m still curious about why the big difference between those since it’s really just 7lbs difference between my prone and SUP gear but I’m assuming there are other reasons.



You're right about that, shouldn't be a significant difference in wing size required over 7#.
Having never ridden any of the rise series I can't offer any comparison but would just say the L Pro came off the water plenty fast enough for me and if even more lift from slower speed is the only advantage to the rise, not sure I'd mix the two lines. Maybe there's an advantage in breaking surf though, particularly smaller surf.

You may consider the possibility that you already have the perfect quiver with XL-R and M-Pro. Maybe you don't need anything in between, at least for prone/sup. I would probably add an XL and M Veloce which you could use mostly for winging initially. You mentioned pretty light winds generally and the XL-V with the 47 V-stab might make winging pretty fun in 10 knots.

Basically, you really can't go wrong with any of the Gong foil parts. None of it breaks the bank and given the increasing popularity it's all re-sellable :)

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2020, 12:18:11 PM »
You May be right. I’m going to test this M and see what it feels like. You called it on the speed. I might want a slower wing right now, just with lower lift.

And for the wind wing starting with my Rise XL and adding an XL Veloce could be the jam. And yes, I have a feeling that if I can’t handle the Veloce after a couple of months it’ll be an easy sale. Might apply some budget to a W Wing earlier as I’m pretty sure that running the walk of shame would give me far more foil time to get the feel of altitude over 60 seconds total per session in the surf lol.

Hdip

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2020, 01:33:33 PM »
Go to the classified section. Buy the gofoil kit from Sano. Sell gong gear. You're set.

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2020, 07:08:06 PM »
Dude, that’s a serious quiver!

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2020, 07:03:05 PM »
Got my Pro M from Thatspec. Looks great. Here’s the obligatory comparison pics. Big boy is Rise XL.

I’m going to hold here and feel the difference between these two (and also learn to wing) and see where that takes me. I’m assuming it’ll be “interesting” to step down to this bit honestly, when it’s bigger I’m thinking I’ll be glad for a little less “blast off.”

I have to say, the quality on this wing in the clear finish is pretty nice. Curious to see if I end up buying a middle wing or just moving to high aspect. But I’ve got a few sessions before I worry about either now.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 07:05:42 PM by surfcowboy »

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2020, 05:28:55 PM »
Ordered a Curve L - T today. And now the gong-wait begins...

Looks really cool, and finally, fills almost exactly the hole in my quiver. Hoping to maybe get to a 2 wing quiver eventually with only the M if I ever ride bigger waves. (Will I?) My goal is Surf wing and Wing wing and I think I might end up with this as a surf wing and the Veloce XL as Wing wing. We shall see. For now, quiver complete.

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/magazine/news-en/shop-new-front-wing-curve-t-online/

Thatspec

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2020, 06:51:48 AM »
Ordered a Curve L - T today. And now the gong-wait begins...

Looks really cool, and finally, fills almost exactly the hole in my quiver.

Hoping for a speedy shipment for you, despite all the new restrictions in France mail order appears to be business as usual.

I'm also hoping the L-T will be useful for me, my regular L-Pro got almost no use this past summer, just a few experiments.  There were many times I could've used it but just wasn't willing to give up a potentially epic day of downwind winging to really learn it. Was a great kite wing for me though. The extra 100 sqcm and higher aspect ratio of the L-T should translate into a lot more lift and glide. Looks like a nice drop in size from the Veloce-XL.

Interesting that latest Malo video eh? Rough calculations tell me I would need an XXXL-T at about 3100 sqcm to have a similar lift and glide he's getting there on the XL-T, looks like fun.

It's all speculation at this point but when you're getting two+ wings for the price of an Axis or GF wing (sans shipping), it's worth the experiment.

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2020, 08:59:25 PM »
Yeah, even with shipping I’ll have about $1,200 invested in 3 wings and 2 masts. I’m just stoked they have a nice step up into HA. I’ll make that move early next year but it’s nice to have measured steps.

I wish I could find a smaller Rise wing used to play around with. I dig the slow wings for learning. Anyone sitting on one in the garage?

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2020, 06:28:28 PM »
And, the L-T is here! Thanks Fishman for being a Gong Wrangler.

Here it is compared to my Rise XL and Curve M.

Initial thoughts are that it's the Goldilocks wing for me. Just right. Should pump well and stay in the water on most waves I'll be on, though I am very curious about the M-T so I might sell off the M.

The trailing edge may get sanded a bit. It's pretty sharp.

I added a 40CM tail too which is smaller in every way. I think if I want a smaller tail I'll make one.

So I'm good for a while I think (famous last words) though I am pretty sure when I dial winging I'll sell off the Rise and go Curve or Veloce  XL. But here it is, wing quiver 2020.


Thatspec

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2020, 02:58:25 AM »
Yes, this is a good looking wing shape! Gary Efferding (Hi-Per Tech) once told me "Don't confuse the water"

So I just tried to ship a box of lebkuchen (from Germany) to my sister in PA. Went on the Deutsche post website and it worked out to 15.60 Euro. Was a little over 2KG so we had to eat some before boxing it up ;D
Went to the post to send it and the guy says that'll be 55.60 Euro. But... but... but I says... but nothing he says, your president caused this. Nothing but priority shipping allowed to the US. So apparently something Trump did has caused standard shipping to disappear to the US and that's likely why Gong shipping charges have suddenly increased as well.

The tariffs he's imposed have also caused the price of natural peanut butter to go through the roof here as well but that's another story. Good riddance!

 


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