Author Topic: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here  (Read 1016 times)

surfcowboy

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Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« on: August 03, 2020, 06:46:31 PM »
Alright, another long-ass post from the Cowboy. First, thanks to all who pitch in on these. I truly appreciate it and try to write stuff up clearly in exchange for the knowledge I get for fun and for free here. (Hopefully these are educational for other folks and entertaining for others.) This is a super confusing process. I tried to gather this into something coherent but it evolved over a few days as I wrote it so bear with me if thereís repetition and call me out if Iím trying to fit too much into one wing slot as you will see thereís some leeway on what I am buying.

Iím considering some life changes (good ones) and so I want to speed up my foil progression. Part of that acceleration is... more gear! (right?) lol But seriously, as Erik A from the Progression Project Podcast says, ďnew gear teaches you things.Ē Iím not hitting the limits of my current wing yet, but I know that Iím limited in certain conditions now and assume that will only become more common. Rather than not go out, Iíd rather have lower lift/faster wing options to use. That, with the long lead time on most Gong orders, and my smaller physical size so thereís less opportunity to try others gear, have made me step up my timeline more than I might.

Here is the main info:

Rider - 5í8Ē (172cm), 135lbs (63kg), 53 year old male. ďDecentĒ shape, (depending on who Iím standing next to) but decidedly below average endurance. Lazy fitness habits, but better food habits is probably fair to say. Surf 1-2 times a week. (This is part of what will be changing. I will be surfing far more soon.)

Use cases: FoilSUP Surfing, ProneFoil Surf (limited TBD) Wind Winging (again, limited now, but likely more common in winter and spring so want to consider it lightly.)

And now the objectives, numbered for ease of tracking the thread. Iím thinking I would like to have a quiver with a total of 3-4 wings. Iíll post the Gong wing line in a reply. If you know Gong stuff, you can skip the followup post with the specs and just shoot an answer/guess.

Big Beginner and small wave ďfunĒ wing - got this covered, Rise XL

First Step Down -  Either main day to day foil, or intermediate step on the way down.

Second Step Down - Maybe optional, if First can be my day to day, but this would be my main workaday foil if I need a step in the learning curve.

High Aspect Downwind/Pump, not really needed but seems fun and interesting.


Starting Quiver: Rise XL, Pro M (Not sure where the Pro M fits yet, Iíll have it here in a week or two, thanks Thatspec!)

Ok so hereís your chance to stop reading and reply. Feel free to just offer wingspans and/or area ranges. Or... choose your own adventure and dive into my brain below and the whole Gong line. lol

1 - First Step Down: ďGo toĒ foil for everyday riding knee to chest high waves in SoCal. I love the XL for ankle to thigh high. But it feels like as I progress a lot of my SoCal riding will be knee to chest which seems just outside the XLís range for my size. Iíll likely never foil bigger waves.

Candidates: Rise M or L, Pro M, or L

My thoughts: My newly purchased Pro M ďseemsĒ like it might work? (Itís similarity to the Kai and Takuma 100 in size makes me think that it might work since a lot of you learned on those.) My only question is will I need a smaller step like staying in the Rise series which is slower, lowering lift but not picking up speed while I learn? Or do I just ďman upĒ and get used to hauling a$$ down the line? ;) If Rise, or Pro, what is the best size for me to step down to? (L Pro, or Rise M?) Iím dropping 21cm (8in) and bumping to a faster profile with the M Pro. Iím really asking, is that a mistake or likely a do-able/advisable step?

Iím fine to buy another interim wing if it makes learning easier. That 45cm mast was a great investment imho. I like easy progression, I never lose more than 6Ē at a time between my surf boards as I progress. (12Ē on SUP.)

2 - Second Step Down: This is sort of optional. If the consensus is that the Pro M will be a good step down for me right away I might skip this. But if not, Iím assuming that the Pro M will be this position. But I do wonder if for ease of use something ďLĒ is needed of any series? (Is this where the H/A comes in?)

Candidates: Pro M, Pro L

3 - Down Winder/HA: (Also, Pump foil for flat water goofing off.) Ah, and here we go. Iím not really ready for a Veloce, but at Gong prices Iíd like to have it here if I can. So, L, XL, or XXL for a guy my size to downwind and wing? Can I surf this thing? Will it wing? etc.

Assume all of this is in the surf for now. I know Iíll add a wing this year and mix it up a bit. But I know that there will be overlap and I can add again once my wing progression is in position so assume this is my first high aspect pump surf wing for this pick.

SoCal has ďfakeĒ downwind conditions. We donít get Maui swell but guys do DW here. Not giant swell, but long period, so moving along at a clip. This is largely theoretical but Iíd like to know and might throw it in just to play with it and sell later. (Or grow into.) It also seems like whatever this size is it will be useful for wind wings in certain conditions.

On DW, does my XL cover me here? Iíve heard of guys using M200ís which are similar size and shape. If so, then should I instead just get a high aspect wing in my ďregularĒ sizes to feel the difference? This is the least likely purchase and might delay this if you think this is more than 6 months out in my learning curve. The recovery from breaching does pique my interest though.

Candidates: My existing Rise XL? Pro XL or XXL? Veloce XL/XXL? What do you folks think would work for my size?

Extra points: If I wanted to surf a Veloce, but am not an expert, would a size L be solid for that?

Stabilizers / Tails

I have a Rise/Curve 45cm tail. Iíll likely add at least one more tail from Gong and then make a couple of simple variations (flat with a different couple of lengths and chords) Based on the wings above, what tail to add to the mix?

I assume Iíd add the Rise 40cm to my kit this round. If I get a Veloce wing Iíll add a matching stab and likely use surf stab at first to tame it a bit. Do I need more than a couple of options?


Summing up, really the overall idea is to end up with 3 to 5 wings to play with while I figure this out. Iíll pare down what I donít love or maybe Iíll sell it all at the end and go Axis or Go Foil, CloudIX or whatever gets good next. But for the price of a 1 or 2 wing set I will have tried a ton of foil options and learned a ton.

(All companies need to build a US rental quiver by the way. Mailing out wings with a return shipping box & label for a month at a time.)

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2020, 06:51:33 PM »
Gong foil sizes for reference and general forum info dump:

Copied from Gong site, so no, I didnít all of a sudden start speaking in translated English. ;) Their site is maddening as they don't have a comparison chart that I can find so I put it all here for faster reference.

Rise/Classic/Surf

The M has a wingspan of 70 cm for a (projected) area of 1258cm2 (1453cm2 developed), and its volume is 2,0L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,0cm thick.

The L has a wingspan of 80cm for a (projected) area of 1643cm2 (1926cm2 developed), and its volume is 3,12L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,5cm thick.

The XL has a wingspan of 90cm for a (projected) surface area of 1844cm2 (2137cm2 developed), and its volume is 3,60L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,5cm thick.

The XXL has a wingspan of 100cm for a (projected) area of 2175cm2 (2487cm2 developed), and its volume is 4,26L. The surface area is large with a very tolerant profile of 3,5cm thick.

Cowboy note: I own the XL, my first wing. Wondering if thatís all I need in this range? Do I get a large Rise or just move to Pro series and fill in there for my surf foils?

Curve/Pro

Surf Foil Wings, super fast and agile, are the Wings for the Pros.

To understand the range, we have kept the sizes M / L / XL / XXL that will guide you in your choice making. Our shaper Patrice Guťnolť has exacerbated the characteristics of each size to radicalize them. The small Wings are smaller and the XXL is giant.

The M is 69cm in Pro against 70cm in classic, and its volume is 1.2L against 2,0L on the classic! Almost half (74%), which means optimum penetration and crazy speed. The area is also down sharply, but only 34%. So, you have much finer profiles.

The L is 77cm in Pro against 80cm in classic, and its volume is 1.6L against 3.1L on the classic! Almost half (95%), which means optimum penetration and crazy speed. The area is also down sharply, but only 42%. So, you have much finer profiles.

The XL is 92cm in Pro against 90cm in classic, and its volume is 2.5L against 3.6L on the classic! Almost half (43%), which means optimum penetration and crazy speed. The area is also down sharply, but only 12%. So, you have much finer profiles.

The XXL is 120cm in Pro against 100cm in classic, and its volume is 4.2L against 4.3L on the classic! Only 2% difference. On the other hand, what radically differs from the XXL classic is its surface which increases by 12%. You have a much finer profile and more lift which means you will fly much earlier.

Cowboy note: Have the M Curve Pro on order from Thatspec. The question here is do I need a fill in size? Specifically something like the L? Also, Iím assuming the XL Pro is too close to my XL, but Iíve seen Obx keeping his XL Pro and Veloce but Iím assuming thatís because they are drastically different wings. Do these follow the same huge difference in style?


Veloce / High Aspect

To understand the range, we have two sizes of wings and, therefore, foils:

The Veloce M has a wingspan of 71cm, 1,000cm2, and a volume of 0,6L. The surface area is small with a very thin profile of 1,3cm thick. This high performances front wing is designed for people under 75kg and/or with a high level and strong wind.

The Veloce L has a wingspan of 82cm, 1,300cm2 and a volume of 0,94L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 1,5cm thick.  This front wing aims for pure high performance for riders weighing around 85kg or in strong wind.

 The Veloce XL has a wingspan of 94cm, 1,600cm2 and a volume of 1,35L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 1,7cm thick. This front wing is for riders around weighing 95kg with a good level and for all other smaller riders that want to glide with lift.

The Veloce XXL has a wingspan of 107cm, 1,900cm2 and a volume of 1,7L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 1,8cm thick. This front wing is suitable for people weighing more than 100kg and/or light wind


Stabilizers / Tails

Rise / Curve (Surf & Pro)

Summarized as generally a good all around shape. Originally designed for use with Rise and Pro wings.

40cm (15.75 in) : carving and high speeds.
45cm (17.75 in) : agility and versatility
55cm (21.65 in): maximum lift and stability

Veloce / High Aspect

The Veloce 43cm wingspan, 280cm2, and its volume is 0,08L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 0,6cm thick. This high performance stab is designed for riders under 75kg and/or with a big level and strong wind.

The Veloce 47cm wingspan, 330cm2, and its volume is 0,12L. The surface is small with a very thin profile of 0,7cm thick. This high performance stab is designed for riders under (sic, assume this means ďoverĒ) 75kg and/or with a high level and strong wind.

Fishman

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2020, 08:07:26 PM »
I probably shouldn't say this but ah, you forgot the kite stabilizers which some of the more skilled guys really like using with the rise and curve both in Surf and Wingadingen. They have two sizes 40 and 45. The 40cm kite with your Med pro is what Gong team rider Burrel uses
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surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 08:38:27 PM »
Ah yes! Thx man. I was figuring that would be beyond my skills but something to consider for sure.

My next post will be me satirizing the length of that post.  ;D

Let that me a lesson to those who want to write a book. Just a little every day will get you there before you know it.

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2020, 07:20:50 AM »
Ok, getting info from PMís and direct that the M Pro will likely be a go to foil once Iím ready. Def for prone, maybe for SUP.

Iím still curious about why the big difference between those since itís really just 7lbs difference between my prone and SUP gear but Iím assuming there are other reasons.

Also, thatspec offers (and this was my guess) that XXLs would mostly be a novelty for me. (Maybe a Veloce down downwind if I donít adopt the wing?) so limiting to L and XL options for first step down and H/A option. Trimming the list.

A key question for me is whether a smaller Rise (slower) wing would be a good step down? And if so, would an L be over powered? Or do I go L Pro as the next step down? Either of those would be easy to sell so I guess Iím mostly concerned with Rise vs Pro for first step down wing.

For high aspect I have to go see what yíall are wingover in Axis thread and see if I can get a feel for that. I know prone guys are riding some pretty small wings but they are all fairly advanced. Might wait on that one and get some tamer foils to play with for now.

All you Gong guys get ready for Cowboyís Foil Sale this Fall once I get a feel for what I can and canít ride.

Side note, i joke about it, but I actually respect Gongís Franco-centric language on their site. Their display of French water culture in their marketing is really cool as well. Itíd be easy now that they are bigger to just show Maui all the time or whatever.

Thatspec

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2020, 09:39:03 AM »


Iím still curious about why the big difference between those since itís really just 7lbs difference between my prone and SUP gear but Iím assuming there are other reasons.



You're right about that, shouldn't be a significant difference in wing size required over 7#.
Having never ridden any of the rise series I can't offer any comparison but would just say the L Pro came off the water plenty fast enough for me and if even more lift from slower speed is the only advantage to the rise, not sure I'd mix the two lines. Maybe there's an advantage in breaking surf though, particularly smaller surf.

You may consider the possibility that you already have the perfect quiver with XL-R and M-Pro. Maybe you don't need anything in between, at least for prone/sup. I would probably add an XL and M Veloce which you could use mostly for winging initially. You mentioned pretty light winds generally and the XL-V with the 47 V-stab might make winging pretty fun in 10 knots.

Basically, you really can't go wrong with any of the Gong foil parts. None of it breaks the bank and given the increasing popularity it's all re-sellable :)

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2020, 12:18:11 PM »
You May be right. Iím going to test this M and see what it feels like. You called it on the speed. I might want a slower wing right now, just with lower lift.

And for the wind wing starting with my Rise XL and adding an XL Veloce could be the jam. And yes, I have a feeling that if I canít handle the Veloce after a couple of months itíll be an easy sale. Might apply some budget to a W Wing earlier as Iím pretty sure that running the walk of shame would give me far more foil time to get the feel of altitude over 60 seconds total per session in the surf lol.

Hdip

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2020, 01:33:33 PM »
Go to the classified section. Buy the gofoil kit from Sano. Sell gong gear. You're set.

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2020, 07:08:06 PM »
Dude, thatís a serious quiver!

surfcowboy

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Re: Building a Gong foil wing quiver - Help me out here
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2020, 07:03:05 PM »
Got my Pro M from Thatspec. Looks great. Hereís the obligatory comparison pics. Big boy is Rise XL.

Iím going to hold here and feel the difference between these two (and also learn to wing) and see where that takes me. Iím assuming itíll be ďinterestingĒ to step down to this bit honestly, when itís bigger Iím thinking Iíll be glad for a little less ďblast off.Ē

I have to say, the quality on this wing in the clear finish is pretty nice. Curious to see if I end up buying a middle wing or just moving to high aspect. But Iíve got a few sessions before I worry about either now.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 07:05:42 PM by surfcowboy »

 


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