Author Topic: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing  (Read 1767 times)

daswusup

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SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« on: August 01, 2020, 07:46:50 AM »


I have been flying the 4.4 and 5.4 a bunch lately. I mostly use the Infinity 84 with 48cm stab and 29" mast(all the way forward) on an outwit 6'6". My previous wings have been Slingwing V1, F-One 5M and Gong V1 7m. I'm going to compare them to the F-One since thats the only other one that was in the same category of radness. My opinion is in early development and may seem biased towards the F-one because I only have a handful of sessions on the Slingshots and 100+ sessions on the F-One. That being said, I sold the F-one and committed to SS.
Weight- F-one is lighter but not very noticeable when flying to me.
Rigidity- Slingshot much stiffer although I'm still deciding whether or not this is a plus or minus. The Dihedral on the Swing keeps it more stable when luffed and when flying.
Power delivery- Swing is smoother when pumping up and more forgiving in transition. The Slingshot power can be turned on and off quickly which has been tricky. When pumping up to foil the Slingshot powerstroke seems shorter(although powerful) before it goes to nothing. The Swing was smooth through the whole stroke and more forgiving.
Handles - The Swing handles while flimsy worked fine and didn't hurt fingers or hands. Slingshot has different amount of handles on each size, so there is some trial and error to figure out which ones work. Slingshot handles are thicker and stiffer and so far not bothering me. I'm certain that they could have left off on the 5.4 the last 2 and the one in front that is turned 90 degrees. I also don't use the Y handles but they seem to play a role in the rigidity of the frame.
Wingtips - Slingshot is a boxy low aspect shape with chopped tips. This has been great with accidental wing tip drag. I can get into a more comfortable cruising/upwind position because of this. For initiating carving 360's this has been a little tricky because I really have to lean over to engage the tip in the water and when that happens much more drag comes all at one due to the tip being a large amount of wing. The F-one, I could just lightly drag and control easier through the carve.
Backwinging- The Slingshot with its ultra rigid frame is far superior when backwinding. The F-one gives me more of an unwelcome giftwrap than I am looking for. The slingshot can be leaned against much more predictably.
Transitions - F-one is smoother and more predictable due to the dihedral(I think). The SS is kind of all on or all off. I think that the ability to shut if off quickly will become a bonus as I get used to it but its a bit squirrely for now. The swingweight of the Slingshot seems much less therefore easier to spin or yah around. This is probably from the flat rigidness of the design. I think the rigid handles also help to initiate the rotation of the wing compared to the flimsy F-one handles which I twist and don't translate my wrist rotation to the wing.
Toeside- I am one of those weirdos that does not switch feet. Haters gonna hate. The placement of the Slingshot handles enables me to get in a much more comfortable toeside riding position than the F-one.
Upwind - My early impressions are that Slingshot is a clear winner in this category. I think that the short wingtips and the rigid compact frame work in unison to get the wing in a more upright position that I can lock out both of my elbows and lean against. I was using a lot more rear arm strength on the F-one to pinch upwind. I can jam upwind on my toeside equally as good with SS.
Hovermode - When flagging out both of these wings are stable. I would say that the stiffness of the SS handle makes it more reactive to my inputs. This will take some getting used to but probably a plus in the end. The F-one flimsy handle with dihedral canopy keeps it really stable when flagged out, but the wingtips tend to catch the water more due to their longer length.

Overall, I am stoked on the Slingshot wings. I think that I will get used to the differences and embrace them. Now I just need a smaller/lighter board to start some hucking.

Send It!!!!

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2020, 08:23:14 AM »
Sweet review!  The Slingshot does look really nice.  What inflation are you using for both brands?

PonoBill

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2020, 10:12:07 PM »
Great review. I looked at one of the new slingshots today--interesting wing. I don't get why designers are adding so many handles though. Seems like it's well past time to get this working better. Lots of ways to skin that cat and it seems to me that handles are the LEAST effective solution.

The high dihedral looked problematic--like the V1 Duotones. The early Duotones flipped at every opportunity.

I'm certainly not settled on F-one being the ultimate wing, but it's time for some kind of demo capability. Having to buy wings to try them isn't going to cut it when they're so expensive, especially since I like the ones I have. I've got to believe that a lot of folks are in the same boat. Same for boards. I plan to settle down with just the F-one wings, the boards I have (maybe minus one), cull the herd of foils to probably three wings, two stabilizers, one fuselage, and two masts and wait until there are either demo opportunities or a clearly superior design
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Phils

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2020, 05:14:26 AM »
Great review. I looked at one of the new slingshots today--interesting wing. I don't get why designers are adding so many handles though. Seems like it's well past time to get this working better. Lots of ways to skin that cat and it seems to me that handles are the LEAST effective solution.

The high dihedral looked problematic--like the V1 Duotones. The early Duotones flipped at every opportunity.

I'm certainly not settled on F-one being the ultimate wing, but it's time for some kind of demo capability. Having to buy wings to try them isn't going to cut it when they're so expensive, especially since I like the ones I have. I've got to believe that a lot of folks are in the same boat. Same for boards. I plan to settle down with just the F-one wings, the boards I have (maybe minus one), cull the herd of foils to probably three wings, two stabilizers, one fuselage, and two masts and wait until there are either demo opportunities or a clearly superior design
I agree with so much of this.  I have to conclude that most wings have too many handles given that the very popular Swing essentially has 2 power handles as does the Cloud (which I believe will be a hit as availability increases).

Wing demos.  The pandemic and the lack of supply make it hard right now but the logistics are so much easier than kite demos, for example.  So easy to come in and switch wings and sizing isnít as critical. 

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 06:07:24 AM »
Me three.  A few of the other wings potentially look good (SS V2, Ensis without window, Doutone Unit, BRM) but I am too happy on the Swings to switch on a maybe.  Hoping that F-One has made a few tweaks for next season.  Handles alone would be plenty for me. 

daswusup

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 07:59:46 AM »
Sweet review!  The Slingshot does look really nice.  What inflation are you using for both brands?

I am inflating to 8ish. I have not been trusting my pump gauge. I don't feel the need to over inflate the SS like I did on the Swing.

RE: handles - I like the long handle on the Echo. I feel like I am making micro adjustments with my fingers all the time and wish that I just had three longer handles instead of 6 short ones. Mini boom handles might be nice. I used to do a bunch of whitewater kayaking and I had a paddle with a bent shaft that was more ergonomic to my wrist than a straight shaft. Wonder if this would translate to winging. Seems like I am always bending wrists aft. I think this is probably why I just hold the handles with my fingertips - to get the right angle for my wrists.

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 08:09:03 AM »
Hey Daswasup,

I am not sure if you mean that you were at 8 on the Swing as well but I really don't like the Swings at 8.  They are way to mushy and they go crazy overpowered or upwind.  At 10 PSI they are a completely different animal.  I just consider that the correct inflation for them, not overinflated.

You wrote Echo.  Did you mean the handles on your slingshot?

daswusup

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 08:19:07 AM »
I meant 8 on the SS which is what they call for. Yes, I agree that the Swing needs a bit more psi than they call for at least on the 5M which is the only one I have used. And I meant the handles on the Unit, not the Echo. I like that they are long.

PonoBill

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 08:21:46 AM »
I agree 100 percent on the ergonomics of handles--terrible. The BRM front handle looks great, I did a funky version of it with an F-one but it was just external PVC pipe bits that I heated and bent, and it was too clumsy. My wrists ache after a long session even though I never close my hands around my fake boom or handles. I might attempt and ergo tweak to my fake boom. I'm not sure how I'd do that without doing a full-on fabrication effort, which probably should be in the cards anyway. I don't like to whine about design issues without doing something about it myself, though I'm willing to spend the money on someone else's good solution.

The fake boom solves a lot of issues for me. I can one-hand the wing going upwind and power up a little one-handed going downwind by grabbing the boom just behind the front handle. It's an easy transition from the leading edge handle to the one hand power position--none of the problems of needing to grab a handle the other hand is already holding.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 09:19:13 AM »
Have you guys ridden the 6.4m Slingshot?

I gave me fits on poor jibes. Nothing for me to grab. I ended up grabbing the harness line to pull the wing to me.

So in my opinion, that intermediate handle Fone includes, but you donít use riding, you really miss during general wing handling and unexpected situations. So 3 handles are better than 2 in my view.

I consider the Slingshot 6.4m to be a 2 handle wing. Those extra ones in the back, cannot be reached without causing a shoulder injury for old guys.

So if I were Greg, the Cloud would include the intermediate handle. Maybe not as cool, but more user friendly.

Itís nice to see the Unit comes with the intermediate handle. The Unit is the handle wing I find more interesting.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 09:25:00 AM by Dwight (DW) »

flkiter

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 10:06:19 AM »
I think SS should of put two handles in that open space between the handles also. I made a boom up for it and it was great for all sorts of tricks but these companies need to come out of the bag without needing mods. Makes you wonder who's actually testing this stuff. I'm still all for the F1's. SS can't compare in the waves. Great for flat water 360's, tacks, and shoulder injuries with that long reach. I'm looking forward to trying the Unit.

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 04:58:35 PM »
Duotone Unit is out in the wild.  I met a guy with one on the beach today.  Really nice guy and a cool looking wing.  Big leading edge.  The handles are wide and they feel good.  Long and low.  They are nicer than the F-One handles.  They are not stiff like the BRM's but they have some firmness.  The wing (5 meter) said inflate to 6 and the wingtips were very soft (not sure how much he inflated).  I would definitely pump that way up.  It looks really nicely built.

Also checked out a friends 4 meter SS V2.  That one says inflate to 10 PSI.  It had very stiff wingtips at 10.  Noticeably stiffer than a maxed out Swing 4.2.  The 4.0 has one front horizontal handle and two rear handles, just like the Swing.  In front of the front handle there is a vertical handle and then two angle handles.  The handles didn't feel great. 

All of the above are beach impressions only. 

I also heard that the Swing V2 is due in the fall.  No details.


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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 03:25:26 AM »
Have you guys ridden the 6.4m Slingshot?

I gave me fits on poor jibes. Nothing for me to grab. I ended up grabbing the harness line to pull the wing to me.

So in my opinion, that intermediate handle Fone includes, but you donít use riding, you really miss during general wing handling and unexpected situations. So 3 handles are better than 2 in my view.

I consider the Slingshot 6.4m to be a 2 handle wing. Those extra ones in the back, cannot be reached without causing a shoulder injury for old guys.

So if I were Greg, the Cloud would include the intermediate handle. Maybe not as cool, but more user friendly.

Itís nice to see the Unit comes with the intermediate handle. The Unit is the handle wing I find more interesting.

I agree with you DW.  Handles still have a long way to go.  Seems like a huge oversight with such an easy solution.  I am fine with two handles but they need to be double wide and stiff.  I am hoping that F-one will nail this in November.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 07:53:51 AM »
Iíve been thinking recently about how different wings feel pumping...not from a wing tip catching point of view, aspect ratio, or anything else, but from how they feel when you ďhammer on themĒ ....full body pumps.

On many wings, the canopy collapses on the push out stroke, then inflates on the pull in. So when you are underpowered for a given size, the wing gives a flappy (in the middle) unsatisfying lack of power feeling.

The only wings I can think of that actually felt rock solid and satisfying in this particular area is the WASP and the Echo. All the rest, have had some level of flappy ness.

So with that said, the Unit having the canopy attached rigid to the strut for 2/3 of its length, makes me go hum...will it match the feeling I remember in the WASP, and what I have currently in the Echo? The old Duotone was flappy BTW.


« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 07:56:04 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Phils

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Re: SS V2 VS F-ONE Swing
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 09:37:23 AM »
Dwight, would be interested in your thoughts about the BRM wing if you get a chance to try one.  I played with one on the beach and it seemed incredibly stiff but then I was riding close to one on the water and when he pumped it, the whole thing moved a lot. Hard to describe but kinda like a butterfly flapping its wings.  It was pretty dramatic how it was folding up and down.

 


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