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Author Topic: Gong Veloce XL review  (Read 3591 times)

obxDave

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Gong Veloce XL review
« on: August 01, 2020, 06:51:55 AM »
Way too long winded review so Cliff notes summary: I like it. Iím keepin it.

In typical Gong fashion my Veloce XL and Veloce 47cm stabilizer finally arrived after 3 weeks in transit from France for the bargain shipping price of 200Ä (someone needs to convince Patrice to switch from LaPosta to DHL for overseas shipping but thatís another beat-to-death story.....).

Here are the specs on the VeloceXL:
Wingspan: 94 cm
Chord: 20 cm
Wingspan/chord ratio: 4.7
Thickness: 1.7 cm
Volume: 1.35L
Projected area: 1520 cm2
Extraordinary surface area: 1598 cm2
Perceived surface area: 1600 cm2
Weight of the wing in 94 cm: 1.2 kg

Itís not super high aspect but what I would call modest ha. Itís not extremely flat but it doesnít have much arc either (projected 1520 versus 1600 actual). What makes it unique is thickness (volume). At 1.7cm itís about half the thickness of a GL210. Itís volume is just 1.35 liters versus a smaller area Axis 1010 (1430 sq cm projected) at 1.73 liters. So itís really thin! Probably among the thinnest production foils for its area.

My foil riding universe has been the Gong pro XL, Mose 1100 and 790, and some quick rides on the Axis 1020 and 1150. Iíll be blunt in my opinion,.....but it DOES NOT mean one wing is good and another bad, it just means what works best for me, kinda like boom versus handles.

First off Axis and Moses; fit and finish for both brands is absolutely top notch but I could not wrap my head around either the 1020 or the 1150. The 1020 seemed like the foil equivalent of big ole 140L board you want for the first 30 minutes of winging and then you want move on quickly.  The 1150 had amazing low end, pump and glide, but carvy turning was not itís forte, itís more of that flat slidey pivot turn you need to make happen with some extra leg work. The Moses 1100 has just a little more carvyness to it than the 1150 (banking in a turn) but itís also in that ďdonít over lean into the turn or Iíll get pissed offĒ feel. Of course the 1100 and 1150 are wiiiiide wings, so expecting them to be lean-in carvy is asking a bit too much. That being said Balz and Gunnar can rip on the 1100 (and I have generally gotten used to using it),  and I have no doubt there are people killing it on the 1150 and big GL wings........ Guess you just adapt to those flat turns. Oh and while the Moses 790 was very carvy with its much smaller wing span, it had a noticeably higher stall speed and was much less glidey,  so that much more likely to come off the foil during upwind transitions that arenít perfect. I judge based on upwind stuff, not downwind stuff.

So that brings me to the Veloce XL. Based on my experience with the 1100 and 1150 I had ultra low expectations. I even chickened out my first chance to ride it, since there were a lot of spectators around. Finally rode it yesterday morning with no one in sight  ::) in sorta light flukey 5m conditions, and yesterday afternoon in honking 4m conditions. All I can say is that Patrice must have some magical ability to design foil wings that fit my limited ability. Itís fast, ultra glidey, and very turny/carvy with a suprisingly low stall speed. Itís a wee bit more sensitive to pitch and roll control than my pro XL, but not by much at all. It responds great to both flat turning and lean-in carvy turns. This wing just loves to do this awesome glide on tacks (both heel and toeside). Definitely a different pump cadence to get used to. It hauls arse upwind with my Echoís...... So, I didnít finish my 360ís on the foil but, considering it was my first 60 min of riding a very new foil in flukey light winds it was still great.

So despite the Gong ordering hassles,  the crude fuselage, the way too spongy Al mast (and required mod to accept a stiff heavy 19mm Axis mast), the lack of inbewteen carbon mast sizes, I guess the crazy bearded Frenchman stills gets my nod of approval. My current go to foils are the pro XL and the Veloce XL.  Iíll keep the Moses 1100 for now.  Gonna try and have Jim Stringfellow fab a lightweight fuselage to adapt my Moses carbon  surf masts to the Gong wings. Then all will be right with the worldÖ..except for wanting that 4í10Ē 70L FSM board.

The wife said something about some PITA Storm potentially headed up the sound on Monday.  Gonna mess up those SW thermals for a few days.

https://youtu.be/jlVdi6amRIQ

« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 07:10:12 AM by obxDave »

daswusup

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2020, 07:56:12 AM »
Great review Dave! That Veloce looks sick for the wingding. Seems like Patrice may have found a nice formula somewhere between HA and Low Aspect. I am holding out for the Slingshot Phantasm range. I do have a 5'2" HIPE 110L paid for($833 shipped!) supposedly shipping on the 9th. Gong is an innovator and game changer in the rapidly changing wing world. Patrice is 2 steps ahead of a lot of designers. It really helps to watch him rip so hard on his product.  I wish Slingshot could crank out new products as fast as Gong.

Thatspec

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2020, 08:34:14 AM »
Great review Dave,
You've tried just about everything in a front wing I'd be interested in. Do you use a smart watch with speed data, curious what average peak speeds would be while winging on this? True aspect ratio on the VXL appears to be around 5.8 making it roughly the same as the M1100 so the VXL is overall a much smaller wing. Can't speak to the thickness and volume as Moses doesn't provide.

surfcowboy

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2020, 08:55:05 AM »
Thx man, great review.

Your take on Gong designs being good for your skill level is likely very astute. When you read Patriceís writing they talk a lot about getting people into the sport. Listening to pros can be amazing but not sure they represent what most people want to do or can. Iím betting this is what makes DWís stuff universally loved by his riders for another example.

Can I ask why youíre keeping both if they are similar in size? Is the speed and turning different enough that you will use them in different conditions? Iím trying to plan a quiver and am curious if similar sizes of different series are a good idea over time. (Exactly what you are doing with Pro/Curve and Veloce XL)

bigmtn

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2020, 10:03:45 AM »
Can you post a pic of your axis mast adapter?
Thanks

surfcowboy

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2020, 01:59:46 PM »
Bigmtn something you will notice in the adapters is that most folks use the Helavator adapter fuselage which has a square insert. That is cheap and makes an easier machining job since you donít need to cut the weird foiled mast shape, only match a rectangle.

Seems like any stiff mast that has an insert (Neil Pryde?) would be easy to do.

obxDave

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 05:37:35 PM »
Great review Dave! That Veloce looks sick for the wingding. Seems like Patrice may have found a nice formula somewhere between HA and Low Aspect. I am holding out for the Slingshot Phantasm range. I do have a 5'2" HIPE 110L paid for($833 shipped!) supposedly shipping on the 9th. Gong is an innovator and game changer in the rapidly changing wing world. Patrice is 2 steps ahead of a lot of designers. It really helps to watch him rip so hard on his product.  I wish Slingshot could crank out new products as fast as Gong.
speaking of Slingshot, one of their team riders just happened to be at our launch site the other day with what he described as a new prototype foil. Very high aspect in the 1200-1300 sq cm range, but it also had a lot of arc to it. Definitely an unusual shape.

I think the reason I like Patrice is that he seems to design in just the right balance of features without going too extreme in any one category. Plus heís getting older. I figure he just like wings that are high performance but still easy to ride.

Great review Dave,
You've tried just about everything in a front wing I'd be interested in. Do you use a smart watch with speed data, curious what average peak speeds would be while winging on this? True aspect ratio on the VXL appears to be around 5.8 making it roughly the same as the M1100 so the VXL is overall a much smaller wing. Can't speak to the thickness and volume as Moses doesn't provide.
Sorry no GPS speed data yet, but I definitely want to try some speed runs assuming the grass doesnít get too bad (always an issue this time of year). I did a quick and dirty caliper thickness measurement on the 1100 and got 2.5 cm thickness. Thatís actually pretty thin for a 2100 sq cm foil, probably part of the reason that Dwight and superhumans like Balz Muller can get such high speeds from such a big foil.

Thx man, great review.

Your take on Gong designs being good for your skill level is likely very astute. When you read Patriceís writing they talk a lot about getting people into the sport. Listening to pros can be amazing but not sure they represent what most people want to do or can. Iím betting this is what makes DWís stuff universally loved by his riders for another example.

Can I ask why youíre keeping both if they are similar in size? Is the speed and turning different enough that you will use them in different conditions? Iím trying to plan a quiver and am curious if similar sizes of different series are a good idea over time. (Exactly what you are doing with Pro/Curve and Veloce XL)
To be honest Iím not sure what the heck Iím doing other than splurging (not my normal mindset :o) to have some fun in testing out different wings to hone down on what I really like the best, and as you say for different conditions. So far all my riding is in flat water and Iím guessing things will change a bit in the ocean or with downwinders. I thought I would sell the ProXL as soon as I got the Moses 1100 and 790. I kitefoil with the Moses 633/483 and already have money invested in the 72cm and 82cm Moses surf masts. But that Gong proXL foil was just so easy to keep progressing with. I just sold the 790, but I feel like I want hang onto the 1100 at least for bit longer. At some point I will just say this is what works best and thin the others out.

Speaking of Gong and gearing towards newbies. I remember back when Alex Arguera was doing this promo video (I think at Big Winds?) introducing the GL foils. He had his team riders like 20 something superhuman Austin Kalama describing the wings while the audience questions were coming from old timers like me.

Oh, and that Slingshot rider I met the other day testing a new prototype foil. 20 something and all of maybe 130# and a pure prone surf background. Not one foot switch but he loved to pump....guess itís all a matter of who is driving the foil development.

obxDave

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2020, 06:05:58 PM »
Can you post a pic of your axis mast adapter?
Thanks
i posted some picís and a brief in the  ďAxis FoilsĒ thread around page 15. Not sure how it ended up there......

obxDave

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 01:13:49 AM »
Great review Dave,
You've tried just about everything in a front wing I'd be interested in. Do you use a smart watch with speed data, curious what average peak speeds would be while winging on this? True aspect ratio on the VXL appears to be around 5.8 making it roughly the same as the M1100 so the VXL is overall a much smaller wing. Can't speak to the thickness and volume as Moses doesn't provide.
You got me thinking on this speed thing and I just realized that this Veloce XL wing is 2mm thinner than that big ole 19mm Axis mast! Where you might expect overall drag to be dominated by the wing, with my current setup that ďfatĒ untapered mast might contribute a higher percentage effect to drag of the total rig, reducing the top speed a bit.  All the more reason Iíd like to switch my fuselage adapter scheme to the tapered carbon Moses masts I already own. In the grand scheme of things it probably wouldnít make a big difference, but us ex engineering types love to tinker and feel our flying machines are performing at full potential..... :)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 02:00:48 AM by obxDave »

supunk

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 07:48:08 AM »
May have to have a few speed runs on my XXL Veloce with the thin Gong mast to compare with the Axis mast rig😀

Thatspec

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 11:43:24 AM »
Another data point to throw in;
The Gong 100cm carbon mast is about 1.4cm thick down near the fuse. The chord is 12.5cm.

Admin

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 05:38:30 PM »
Another data point to throw in;
The Gong 100cm carbon mast is about 1.4cm thick down near the fuse. The chord is 12.5cm.

One more.  The 96 cm Axis carbon is 1.5 cm x 11.1 cm chord at the wet end.

Thatspec

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 08:01:36 AM »
Good to know Admin, thanks!
Must make some difference, just not sure how much.

obxDave

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 03:39:30 PM »
Another data point to throw in;
The Gong 100cm carbon mast is about 1.4cm thick down near the fuse. The chord is 12.5cm.

One more.  The 96 cm Axis carbon is 1.5 cm x 11.1 cm chord at the wet end.

Moses 82cm surf mast comes in at 1.35 cm and a cord of 11.6 cm at the wet end

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Gong Veloce XL review
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 05:30:29 PM »
Moses 82cm surf mast comes in at 1.35 cm and a cord of 11.6 cm at the wet end

Dave, you have the old Moses mast.

I have the new stiff one. Mine is 1.85 cm thick!

 


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