Author Topic: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?  (Read 1308 times)

clay

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Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« on: July 11, 2020, 10:13:58 PM »
Every time I try to tighten a torx bolt I feel annoyed and frustrated, the key doesn't sit well in the head and I either spin the key up and out of the bolt, or worse up and strip the head.  The keys I have used are the ones that came with various foils and after market I bought online.

Am I missing something?  Do I need special keys to sit properly in the head?  Something else?

My wera hex keys sit perfectly in my hex head bolts just fine, and I can tighten the begeezus out of them without stripping the heads nor breaking the threads out of the foil.  And don't get me started on torx availability which is practically nill (I can buy metric hex at every ace hardware store).

Sell me on this idea of Torx, and what parts do I need to have success?
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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PonoBill

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 11:43:07 PM »
You are using a top of the line key for Allen screws and comparing it to something you got for free--what could the problem possibly be?? You can buy Wera keys for Torx. But any torx bit from a quality manufacturer will fit well and not damage the screws. I've set thousands of Torx screws and never had a head round out. I can't say that for any other design.

The big advantage of torx is that with a proper fitting tool you can apply more torque to a cap screw than any other common head design with no damage. Secondary advantages are that they can be engaged blind since the design allows the drive to slip into engagement with only a little rotation.  But if you like Allen screws, then fine, use them. You can get phillips screws even easier but they are actually designed to limit torque by camming the drive out of the head.

It could be worse, you could be a Canadian, telling us that square drive is best even though they can't be fitted blind and only allow a tool to be engaged at four angles.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2020, 08:39:45 AM »
One other note on this. Clay a Torx connection is so good that you can often use a T28 on a T30 screw. Iíve done this. So check that. Thereís almost no play in a correctly sized Torx connection.

In the larger theoretical sense, think about what makes a good connection. Itís surface area and angles for leverage. Increase both, which a Torx connection does, and you get a better connection and leverage.

Check your tool for fit or quality as Pono said. I used a 28 in a 30 recently over here.

clay

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2020, 12:26:27 PM »
I hear ya.

I ordered a set of wera torx keys, I'll report back...
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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PonoBill

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2020, 03:30:12 PM »
One other note on this. Clay a Torx connection is so good that you can often use a T28 on a T30 screw. Iíve done this. So check that. Thereís almost no play in a correctly sized Torx connection.

I make that mistake frequently simply because Torx heads are so forgiving. If I feel any wiggle at all I assume I've got the wrong bit. Kind of a PITA but when I do the same thing with other screws the result is generally nasty.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

liv2surf

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2020, 09:49:35 AM »
I have been using these very successfully on Axis Torx head bolts (with impact driver). They fit snuggly. I have slowed the speed down to prevent galling.

I also bought a stainless steel bit but it rusted (lightly) and decided it was not worth the trouble. I'll just discard these when they show any signs of rust or rounding off.

https://www.amazon.com/TEMO-25pc-2-Inch-Screwdriver-Insert/dp/B07BM39GG6
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Me: 190 lbs, 64 yo Half Moon Bay, CA

clay

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2020, 01:15:59 PM »
Update:

I bought the expensive Wera stainless long arm Torx keys.  Huge difference, they sit much better in the bolt heads and the long arm adds leverage that makes it super easy to turn.

I bought this set and then returned and bought the 2 keys I needed off ebay:
https://www.amazon.com/3967-TX-SXL-Multicolour-Stainless/dp/B07P5Z2VMV

T 30 and 40 are what's needed for 6 and 8mm countersunk bolts.

The keys are huge, I can't imagine putting them in my wetsuit.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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steamroller

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2020, 01:56:59 PM »
  How about if I sell you OFF the Torx screws heads...at least as far as impact driver and foil.isconcerned...

with the torx heads you put the bit  In the head of the screw  It locks itself in real solid...that's great for driving screws into thick dense wood BUT for something as fragile as a foil I don't know....i dont like it becausewhen you press the button on the impact driver that sucker takes off spinninng like crazy... Maybe 2 or more clicks of the impact  and you easily strip the threads in the fuselage Or break the tracks in the board... I've done this before lots of times...gotta be VERY carefull with the impact driver

BUT
with Phillip heads You just put the bit in the head of the screw and very lightly press the button without pushing down on the impact driver and when it hits 2 clicks of impact the bit will bounce right out the head no problem...idiot proof...sorf of

although over 20 to30 setups the bit eventually gets destroyed and you need new bolts...so yeah theres that...but they're cheep at lowes




PonoBill

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2020, 04:13:52 PM »
Phillips screws are DESIGNED to strip out if they are over torqued, so you're right, they are for people (I hesitate to say "idiots" but I guess I just did) with no mechanical sympathy. That's fine. But if you have just a tiny bit of mechanical ability and use the typical 1/4" hex drive cordless then the amount of torque you apply is controlled by YOU and your index finger. Anyone that just lets the driver hammer away at max torque deserves what happens to them and should confine themselves hereafter to very small hand tools, or perhaps no tools at all. Certainly nothing sharp.

I'm fussier than most folks, because I spent a lot of my life fixing things that go fast for other people as well as my own. I probably have more torque wrenches than most people have wrenches. So I'd say YES, you are absolutely right.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

steamroller

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2020, 09:38:32 PM »
AND...the most important reason...

when you line up the plate on the upside down board and set the screws 1/2 turn with your fingers...set the driver bit in the Phillips head and pull the trigger...1,2,3,4...Brap,Brap.Brap.Brap!...kinda makes a sound like a Nascar tire change guy!

Cooooool ;D

https://youtu.be/kNJHnD9_bCc


Dwight (DW)

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2020, 04:02:22 AM »
I cringe seeing anyone use impact drivers on anything epoxy.

If you understand how poorly epoxy bonds plastic or metal, you would never do this.

A drill with torque clutch is different. Impact driver...never.

Hand tools are the safe way. Be smart about it.

LaPerouseBay

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Re: Torx bolts??? I want to understand, why do you like them?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2020, 12:47:33 PM »


A drill with torque clutch is different. Impact driver...never.



Agree 100% with your recommendation for hand tools on a foil.

If someone absolutely needs to save a minute or two inserting screws, your drill recommendation is best for the average person.  The mechanical twist ring (with big numbers) has great feedback thru the clutch settings.  They can hear the clutch slipping.  Most importantly - the twist of the direct drive on the wrist (action reaction).   Most drills also have a high/low speed setting.  Relatively harmless if the operator has the patience to start at one and move up.

Makita has an impact driver that won't do damage.  It's adjustment is all electronic.  Not having the direct feedback on your wrist - requires more finesse to evaluate.  Low settings are very soft, speed is adjustable etc. Very light, powerful tool.  Not recommended for the average foiler.  But if anyone is looking for an impact driver that will not strip a tiny screw in soft wood, this works. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N9JBDK5/ref=vp_d_ac_sub_sp_pd?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07N9JBDK5&pd_rd_w=a91VH&pf_rd_p=2ffcd48a-9fc6-4fa5-9277-084a00597c0f&pf_rd_r=2481c719-2025-4831-933a-6d0b09defe7a&pd_rd_r=2481c719-2025-4831-933a-6d0b09defe7a&pd_rd_wg=GcQge&th=1

Ha ha on the "cringe" comment.  We see all sorts of power tool shenanigans in construction. Underestimating the power of an impact driver (torque) is common.  You should see what it can do to human beings.  When you have witnessed a "professional" standing on the top of a 12 foot stepladder, turn himself into a ceiling fan... Well, you become inured to the sound of impact driver damage.   :)
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