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Author Topic: Downwind riding techniques  (Read 2836 times)

Phils

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Downwind riding techniques
« on: July 06, 2020, 04:56:54 PM »
Wanted to get some input on this as I am just beginning to explore downwind/swell riding.  I have found the easiest is to just hold the wing horizontally overhead with both hands. Works ok but zero style points.  Today I worked on complete flag out by grabbing leading edge handle as I turned downwind while toeside on a swell and pumped a few times to keep going but I had limited success regrabbing my wing to power up again and usually crashed.  Any thoughts?

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2020, 05:13:46 PM »
Phils,

I am working on that same thing exactly and in the same way...and I have been getting stuck at that spot exactly.  I think I figured out (a part of) my problem today.  If I jybe to toeside and go downwind with both hands on the wing, the power from the wing stays forward.  That holds the nose down and it works great.  But...when I have been going for the leading edge handle my back hand goes to the handle and I have been bringing the handle back to my hip.  It just feels comfortable there, but that lets the node ride up and it doesn't stay together for long.  Today I made a conscious effort to get my weight forward.  My thought was, "stop sailing, start surfing".  I only had one success today and it was brief but it was definitely an improvement.  I am not sure what the exact sequence will be but I feel like the answer is right there.  Watch for a lot of explosions this week :).  By months end we will be on the handle!

Phils

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2020, 05:31:25 PM »
There is a video on FB of Brandon Scheid at the Hatchery posted a couple of days ago which I found very helpful and inspiring.  I have no clue how to post it here.

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2020, 05:45:57 PM »
There is a video on FB of Brandon Scheid at the Hatchery posted a couple of days ago which I found very helpful and inspiring.  I have no clue how to post it here.

You can paste the url from any video source into our text field.  No tags are required.

Thatspec

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2020, 06:39:08 PM »
If I jybe to toeside and go downwind with both hands on the wing, the power from the wing stays forward.  That holds the nose down and it works great.  But...when I have been going for the leading edge handle my back hand goes to the handle and I have been bringing the handle back to my hip.  It just feels comfortable there, but that lets the node ride up and it doesn't stay together for long. 

Getting "back to power" from the leading edge handle is still a very tricky thing for me and is causing a large percentage of my re-starts. Part of your brain has to always be driving that foil regardless of what your hands might need to do. Dropping to the leading edge handle is sort of the ultimate commitment. Maybe transitioning back to the power handles well before you need them would be a good way to develop the muscle memory for when you need them "right now" (I end up in some awkward positions waiting too long). On the other hand, my pumping has improved significantly just refusing to go back to power (the lemon board has also helped).

I say this after every run but todays Viento / HR run was my best ever. So far I haven't had to deflate and prone paddle out of a single downwinder, I think in general it's pretty safe. Totally safe actually this time of year, just a risk of inconvenience. If you guys are interested in doing a run just let me know, I don't get in a hurry, just go until my back thigh is throbbing then sit on my board for a bit. When I go with the paddlers it's not so relaxing, they generally time it and race. Would be fun to do a wing only run sometime :)





PonoBill

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 07:15:45 PM »
What you do with the wind depends on wind speed. If the wind is a lot faster than the swells them you can let the wind wander out in front of you. When you need it, pull it UP first. If you pull it too you and try to get to the power handles it will be too close and you'll lean forward over it into a bad balance position. Pull it up, turn a little bit in the direction you want to go, and get the handles--front first.

If the wind is slower than you are going in a bump the wing will be behind or to the side of you. Again, lift it up over your head before you go for the handles. If the wing is behind you, you need to turn a lot harder across the swell to get close to the reach position. If you don't, the wing will pull you off the board.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Phils

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2020, 07:16:33 PM »
If I jybe to toeside and go downwind with both hands on the wing, the power from the wing stays forward.  That holds the nose down and it works great.  But...when I have been going for the leading edge handle my back hand goes to the handle and I have been bringing the handle back to my hip.  It just feels comfortable there, but that lets the node ride up and it doesn't stay together for long. 

.... Maybe transitioning back to the power handles well before you need them would be a good way to develop the muscle memory for when you need them "right now" ....

This is exactly what my rational brain tells me but it is so much fun to try and get one more pump in.

Phils

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2020, 07:43:04 PM »
What you do with the wind depends on wind speed. If the wind is a lot faster than the swells them you can let the wind wander out in front of you. When you need it, pull it UP first. If you pull it too you and try to get to the power handles it will be too close and you'll lean forward over it into a bad balance position. Pull it up, turn a little bit in the direction you want to go, and get the handles--front first.

If the wind is slower than you are going in a bump the wing will be behind or to the side of you. Again, lift it up over your head before you go for the handles. If the wing is behind you, you need to turn a lot harder across the swell to get close to the reach position. If you don't, the wing will pull you off the board.

Good stuff, thanks.

PonoBill

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2020, 09:07:52 PM »
Wow, my spelling on the post sucked to the point that it's hardly comprehensible to ME.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2020, 11:21:07 PM »
Exploring the same here too. The issue I have is that I don't get any decent size bumps so have to rely on overspeeding downwind during the bear away by really hanging off the wing hard and pumping before coming back onto the wind and powering back up again. I've described it before as putting down a top and bottom turn on a wave, and I'm trying to extend the gap between the two with not much success. Each time I depower, I slow down so quickly, that I almost immediately have to put that bottom turn in. I've resorted to holding on the wing with both hands and feathering the power, with wing overhead, which allows longer rides. Not sure if the foil is helping much - currently smallish low aspect surf foil - but new high aspect foils are arriving soon, so will soon know.

I could wing to an area with better bumps but it's a bit committing and would take me quite far away from home and across a major shipping channel. A future adventure...
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Flint 5'6 95L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Naish Thrust L
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2020, 12:09:41 AM »
If I jybe to toeside and go downwind with both hands on the wing, the power from the wing stays forward.  That holds the nose down and it works great.  But...when I have been going for the leading edge handle my back hand goes to the handle and I have been bringing the handle back to my hip.  It just feels comfortable there, but that lets the node ride up and it doesn't stay together for long. 

.... Maybe transitioning back to the power handles well before you need them would be a good way to develop the muscle memory for when you need them "right now" ....

This is exactly what my rational brain tells me but it is so much fun to try and get one more pump in.

I like that idea, Thatspec.  I am going to try it.

That video is so chill because when he goes to the handle he is mostly cruising and doing little maintenance pumps.  It makes me recognize that in an effort to pick up this skill I am forcing pumps where they don't belong.  I need to commit more and start trying the handle in better swell. 

« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 12:20:06 AM by Admin »

obxDave

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2020, 12:53:18 AM »
Not sure if the foil is helping much - currently smallish low aspect surf foil - but new high aspect foils are arriving soon, so will soon know.

Which high aspect foils do you have on order?

Solent Foiler

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2020, 01:03:48 AM »
Not sure if the foil is helping much - currently smallish low aspect surf foil - but new high aspect foils are arriving soon, so will soon know.

Which high aspect foils do you have on order?

That's a little story in itself but short answer is the Gong Veloce L and XL. I'm basically on a flat water spot which would suit them but I was really torn between the Veloce and less extreme Curve / Pro foils but HA seems to be the way things are headed and won't be a prohibitively expensive mistake if I don't get on with them.
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Flint 5'6 95L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Naish Thrust L
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

obxDave

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Re: Downwind riding techniques
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2020, 02:26:31 AM »
Not sure if the foil is helping much - currently smallish low aspect surf foil - but new high aspect foils are arriving soon, so will soon know.

Which high aspect foils do you have on order?

That's a little story in itself but short answer is the Gong Veloce L and XL. I'm basically on a flat water spot which would suit them but I was really torn between the Veloce and less extreme Curve / Pro foils but HA seems to be the way things are headed and won't be a prohibitively expensive mistake if I don't get on with them.

Cool :).  Do you expect them to arrive soon? Still very new so Iíve only seen a couple of quick reviews so far. They should be great for pumping and downwinding.

Back on subject; Iím just riding in flat water for now and during every session I always practice some occasional  ďrelease and pumpĒ (point downwind, go to one handed wing luff and pump the foil since I donít really have any sizable bumps to work with). I figure that luffed downwind pumping is good practice for luffed swell/wave riding.  I donít always get that far but Iím getting more comfortable with it. My Moses W1100 actually pumps really well and I think my technique is slowly improving over time

 


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