Author Topic: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it  (Read 5589 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2020, 09:59:45 PM »
As far as terms are defined, I make it simple.  The wing is the source of power, so you're either facing it with your toes, (toeside) or you're facing away from it (heelside). 

When I'm heelside, crossed up, (many here on Maui call it 'Twisted Sister') or whatever you wish to call it, I'm having success by driving my back knee forward to keep weight on my toes.  I guess this is why many think of this as toeside.  This stance is challenging for me since I have 15 yrs of changing stance on a windsurfer and never kited.

So what's your plan--to add a few more pages to this discussion?
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bigmtn

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2020, 12:59:28 PM »
I've been getting front knee pain after a few of my sessions.  Yesterday I noticed my knee felt off while riding toeside(toes towards water, back to wing).  I was trying to play around with foot position to figure out what was causing the stress.  Anyone else have this issue?  Prone foiling I have no issues or pain.

When I turn heelside, everything feels strong and comfortable, but toe side adds a lot of stress to my front knee, especially when going up and down waves trying to keep the nose of the board from touching down.  My stance is already pretty narrow compared to the other guys I foil with. When I tried one of their boards, my back foot was at least 2 inches in front of their back strap when my front foot was in the strap (we are similar height).  Open my stance up more? 

bigmtn

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2020, 02:11:07 PM »
front leg knee pain...to clarify. The pain is actually more in the back of the knee, but its the front leg that hurts...

VB_Foil

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2020, 02:17:13 PM »
When I'm riding crossed up I really have my stance opened up.  Think slalom snowboard style.  This puts more stress/flexibility requirements on my back foot's achilles so make sure you stretch and are loosened up!   If your front strap isn't at an angle and you are pointing your front foot more perpendicular to the rails, I can see how that would put some serious lateral strain on your meniscus etc. 
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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2020, 03:35:56 AM »
I've been getting front knee pain after a few of my sessions.  Yesterday I noticed my knee felt off while riding toeside(toes towards water, back to wing).  I was trying to play around with foot position to figure out what was causing the stress.  Anyone else have this issue?  Prone foiling I have no issues or pain.

When I turn heelside, everything feels strong and comfortable, but toe side adds a lot of stress to my front knee, especially when going up and down waves trying to keep the nose of the board from touching down.  My stance is already pretty narrow compared to the other guys I foil with. When I tried one of their boards, my back foot was at least 2 inches in front of their back strap when my front foot was in the strap (we are similar height).  Open my stance up more?

I am not sure that this is the best way but this is what I am doing in higher winds with unruly swell.  Before a jibe to toeside I do a few little board test pumps to make sure my feet are perfect.  Pumping is an easy way to tell if your feet are on or off the money.  Then I shift both feet to the new tack angle (more forward angle than when I am heelside) before I start the jibe.  I swing the front heel back a little and have to scoot that foot forward and over the centerline to keep everything balanced and my back toes go to where they can be strongly pressured if needed (a little more towards the far rail).  These are usually tiny position changes but they help me a lot.  It is very easy to blow up riding toeside across or pointing in overpowered swell.  For me there is not a lot of choice in stance width in that situation.  I need the back foot where it can smoothly raise the nose to get over a crest and then the front foot has to be ready to down pressure. 

In flat water/no current my back foot position it is way less critical and my back foot is further forward where it is more comfortable. 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 03:41:59 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2020, 04:20:41 AM »
Toe side in straps, does have the potential to stress the knees. It was so bad kiting toe side, that one company introduced a little turntable the front foot strap mounted to. That product doesn’t exist today.


surfcowboy

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2020, 07:56:30 AM »
Ok, now that you all sorted the terms, let's talk about stance. lol

Toe side, front foot is on the downwind side of the board. What is balancing this out? Your back foot toes? Or leaning body weight?

I ask because it's clear from all video that no one is moving front foot to upwind side which intuitively seems what you'd do though I know it would be difficult to hold the wing if course.

What's keeping you from blowing over? Need to visualize the feeling as I start.

Beasho

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2020, 08:45:50 AM »
What's keeping you from blowing over? Need to visualize the feeling as I start.

Toeside is for CrackHeads!

I couldn't picture it either.  You basically have to jibe from your strong side (for me its goofy) and then just don't move your feet.  This was the only way I could understand mentally OR physically how to pull it off.  Then your like "OK this feels terrible but I get how it works."  Then if your lucky you can jibe again.  And you think "OK I see how this may be advantageous . . . . but it is still for CrackHeads."

obxDave

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2020, 10:39:06 AM »
What's keeping you from blowing over? Need to visualize the feeling as I start.

Toeside is for CrackHeads!

I couldn't picture it either.  You basically have to jibe from your strong side (for me its goofy) and then just don't move your feet.  This was the only way I could understand mentally OR physically how to pull it off.  Then your like "OK this feels terrible but I get how it works."  Then if your lucky you can jibe again.  And you think "OK I see how this may be advantageous . . . . but it is still for CrackHeads."

You make it sound like some horrific, painful, completely unnatural riding position. Really....care to share any “Crackhead stance” video

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2020, 10:51:34 AM »
Ok, now that you all sorted the terms, let's talk about stance. lol

Toe side, front foot is on the downwind side of the board. What is balancing this out? Your back foot toes? Or leaning body weight?

I ask because it's clear from all video that no one is moving front foot to upwind side which intuitively seems what you'd do though I know it would be difficult to hold the wing if course.

What's keeping you from blowing over? Need to visualize the feeling as I start.

Visualizing the body position and mimicking on dry land is really helpful.  Regardless of your stance you are going to want to be able to pressure either "rail".  I am using a front strap which has my front toes a little over the centerline.  My back foot is pretty well centered with the toes a little more towards the far rail.  When I Jibe to toeside I swivel my front heel back and towards the centerline a little and pressure my back toes a little more.  It is really very little foot position change.  Having too much weight on your back foot can throw you at first. 

surfcowboy

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2020, 02:03:31 PM »
Got it, and yes, I'm both goofy foot and a crackhead.  ;D

Thx for the info. My back foot is now slightly towards upwind rail and I totally can see the part about getting into this from a jibe as opposed to getting up like this.

If I start from water it'll be "weak side" so I'm sort of "right" lol. But I'm getting through a jibe and then not knowing what to do. What I'm hearing is... "you won't know what to do but you will figure it out when it happens" lol

Video has helped and it showed me that people aren't moving their feet over to the upwind side but I do see people sort of straightening their foot out which does move your weight a bit more to center.

So front foot, center, with weight on toes. Back foot, slightly towards upwind rail, weight on toes. And yes, I also struggle to keep weight on that front foot. I think that's causing my falls. I'll just commit more and see where I go. haha

bigmtn

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2020, 03:23:42 PM »
toeside is much easier to learn than trying to learn to ride waves switch stance...

cowboy i wouldn't worry about your feet too much. you'll kind of automatically move them to whatever position feels most comfortable.

what was bothering my knees earlier was when there wasn't much wind and I was having to pump the board a lot to stay up between gusts while riding toeside. if there is good wind, it isn't an issue

 


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