Author Topic: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it  (Read 2968 times)

soepkip

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2020, 10:04:09 AM »
Another way to think about it:
The board is normally tilted in the roll axis when riding.  Heelside:  pressure on heel of foot to maintain the tilt.  Toeside:  pressure with front of foot to maintain the tilt.

Good idea, I am struggling with toeside riding in rough conditions and have to practise on flat water telling myselve: tilt the board, pressure on your toes!

clay

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2020, 10:32:34 AM »
Good to know, and of course that is the purpose of this exercise. OK:

Switchfoot = you change your front foot for each reach
Fixedfoot = you never change your front foot
Heelside = You are facing the wing
Toeside = You are facing away from the wing
Strongside = dominant foot forward
Weakside = weak foot forward

Anything else?
Perfect!

The other day it was gusty and I breached going downwind and parachuted my way into a gentle faceplant.  Another older winger on a tall mast and fast foil wing comes zipping by and shouts,
"That's called a seagull!"
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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Thatspec

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2020, 10:59:21 AM »

"That's called a seagull!"

 ;D

Several good seagulls yesterday. Too bad the board leash limits the glide so much....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpuE8hKdHJA

Great drone and boat footage here of a Maliko run with wings, sups, and just pumping. The interesting thing is not one person ever switches their stance here, even Alan Cadiz (unless I'm missing it). While I haven't been switching for downwinding either, my right sac joint and knee (regular foot stance) are paying a heavy price. That said, our downwinders tend to be longer duration than a Maliko and I'll spend time waiting for paddlers by going back upwind.

Yesterday I forced myself to ride goofy foot much of the time and it's slowly becoming more comfortable (a lot of time in the water though). I can see where this is going to become mandatory if I want to continue to ride AT ALL, or even walk normally.

PonoBill

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2020, 06:29:57 PM »
Yeah, I have to get used to fixedfoot. I'm getting 3/4 of the way through a switchfoot jibe and coming down. I'm doing everything a lot faster, but I still tap down. I think if I can get comfortable with fixed foot if I concentrate in it for a week. Admin is nailing his jibes doing fixed. I can't be letting him get ahead or he and Chan will zoom off. We need to quit mowing the lawn and start downwinding too.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2020, 04:33:49 AM »
Admin is nailing his jibes doing fixed. I can't be letting him get ahead or he and Chan will zoom off. We need to quit mowing the lawn and start downwinding too.

Hah!  You know, my little board has helped a lot with that and in a strange way.  It made switching my feet on the surface really hard and inconsistent.  My fine foot movements have gone to shit so a big, floaty board was my only savior there.  It was allowing me to jibe by flying around, tapping down , fumbling around to get my feet on the new tack and taking off again.  Functional, and I learned to initiate and carve through a turn but the problem was that I had no way to convert that to a full flying jibe.  I was waiting for something that wasn't going to happen.  When I switched to the smaller board I really could not use the tap down and switch crutch anymore.  That was actually really good for me.  It forced me to focus only on flying through to toeside.  When that finally started to work I then had a way to practice toeside flying.  On my big board I had been trying to practice toeside by kneestarting to toeside and trying to get flying from there.  I wasn't really making any headway with that. 

Flying toeside is still super rough for me but I feel it (slowly) improving.  Some new early skills are emerging.  I found that I could relaunch toeside if I tapped down.  Then I was able to do my first toeside kneestarts and take off.  Then, last session, my first heelside jibe (I think that is what we are calling a jibe from toeside to heelside). 

I see being able to flow seamlessly from heelside to toeside and back (at least strong foot forward) as the critical skill for swell riding and downwinding.  I am nowhere near that yet but that is my big goal right now. 

 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 05:14:05 AM by Admin »

Thatspec

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2020, 10:07:20 AM »
To envision downwinding I found it helpful to accelerate off into a jibe out in the swells, get the wing up overhead (keep your handles) so you can see where you might go, and then rounding back up continuing the same direction. As soon as you get that wing out of your downwind field of vision, you start looking at it like a downwind paddle. Once you let go of your sailing handles and commit to the LE handle, it can be tricky to get back to them when you need to. Very often I'm hanging on to the second back handle (regular sailing front hand) as it's then easier to get back to power. That's why my knuckles are getting buggered by the strut, the wing behaves so much better hanging on the the LE handle but there's a much greater risk for me of just coming to a stop.

That all said, I'm pretty blown away at both how slow and how fast the Axis 1010 can go. It's giving me so much time to sort things with the wing while just merrily gliding along :)

ninja tuna

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2020, 11:20:02 AM »
Heelside = You are facing away from the wing
Toeside = You are facing the wing

Think you reversed these two.  I am trying to keep my hips and upper body facing forward going toeside (just starting to happen for me).  Too twisted up wasn't working that well and it really strains the bod.  Klaas at :04 of this vid is an inspiration.  Such a relaxed open toeside style.

https://youtu.be/6U37BkXMSHo

The point you were noting at :04 seems to make a lot of sense.  I took note of his stance an it seems like DWight is doing the same thing in his video though his foot position and posture are different.  Klas being in straps and DWight not with a wider stance.  When going toeside, I have been twisting around to just hold the wing and fly the foil.  From the videos, bending the back leg (knee) more and lowering a little makes the rotation easier (for me standing in my office).  Definitely need to try this my next time out.  Everyone's style will differ a little in terms of stance and posture but the bent back leg from the videos seems like a big help.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2020, 01:10:40 PM »
Strapless does affect your toe side riding stance. It relieves some of the twisting stain on all the lower parts of the body.

You want to feel pain, ride toe side strapped on a kite board.

Probably the number one sucky thing about being strapped, is riding toe side.

headmount

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2020, 11:00:17 AM »
I just spotted this thread where everyone took three pages to come to a common agreement about the definition of toe and heelside.  I agreed with Bill that toe meant facing the wing and heel meant the opposite but everyone else decided differently.

At any rate I'm having difficulty riding 'facing away from the wing'.  Are people stepping over with their back foot to compensate?


Admin

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2020, 12:01:18 PM »
I just spotted this thread where everyone took three pages to come to a common agreement about the definition of toe and heelside.  I agreed with Bill that toe meant facing the wing and heel meant the opposite but everyone else decided differently.

At any rate I'm having difficulty riding 'facing away from the wing'.  Are people stepping over with their back foot to compensate?

I just learned this myself so here is some stuff that is fresh in my mind. 

When you jibe around and catch the wing downwind give it a little extra tug inwards or a couple small pumps, that will give you a little extra time and will raise you up higher on the foil.  Then you can continue more upwind towards a reach. 

There is a lot of control that comes from sheeting in/out when you are toeside but it is easy to leave that back arm too extended because sheeting in in that position is a little awkward.   

What was fighting me the most was getting my weight forward again when I was on the new toeside tack.  Putting my back foot a little more forward on the board before starting the jibe helped that a lot.  Too wide a stance was making it hard.  To make that work I had to move my mast forward a half inch.  When I made that change I started wing full reaches toeside.

If you are able to consistently jibe around to toeside in the air and control it for even a few seconds, you are going to have toeside soon.   Man does it feel awkward at first! 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 12:03:12 PM by Admin »

headmount

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2020, 12:38:47 PM »


Admin, thanks.  That sounds good.  I'll try it today.

"I just learned this myself so here is some stuff that is fresh in my mind. 

When you jibe around and catch the wing downwind give it a little extra tug inwards or a couple small pumps, that will give you a little extra time and will raise you up higher on the foil.  Then you can continue more upwind towards a reach. 

There is a lot of control that comes from sheeting in/out when you are toeside but it is easy to leave that back arm too extended because sheeting in in that position is a little awkward.   

What was fighting me the most was getting my weight forward again when I was on the new toeside tack.  Putting my back foot a little more forward on the board before starting the jibe helped that a lot.  Too wide a stance was making it hard.  To make that work I had to move my mast forward a half inch.  When I made that change I started wing full reaches toeside.

If you are able to consistently jibe around to toeside in the air and control it for even a few seconds, you are going to have toeside soon.   Man does it feel awkward at first! "
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 12:40:52 PM by headmount »

clay

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2020, 02:19:47 PM »
I found a stance adjustment allowed me to ride toeside, but the board I was learning on did not have arch bars so I had a difficult time finding that sweet spot.  Switching to my boards with arch bars allowed me to find a good stance every time.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

Solent Foiler

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2020, 02:28:45 PM »
There is a lot of control that comes from sheeting in/out when you are toeside but it is easy to leave that back arm too extended because sheeting in in that position is a little awkward.   

What was fighting me the most was getting my weight forward again when I was on the new toeside tack.  Putting my back foot a little more forward on the board before starting the jibe helped that a lot.  Too wide a stance was making it hard...

I found practicing not foiling on a light wind day helped get the wing feel and you can practice foot swapping at the same time.

Agree foot forward helped but also towards the rail, as the front foot is on the leeward side of the board making it want to bear away downwind.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 02:36:53 PM by Solent Foiler »
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Gong Flint 5'6 95L
Gong Catch 5'3 34L
Naish Thrust L
Gong Pulse - 4m, 5m
Gong Superpower 6m

headmount

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2020, 11:12:39 AM »
As far as terms are defined, I make it simple.  The wing is the source of power, so you're either facing it with your toes, (toeside) or you're facing away from it (heelside). 

When I'm heelside, crossed up, (many here on Maui call it 'Twisted Sister') or whatever you wish to call it, I'm having success by driving my back knee forward to keep weight on my toes.  I guess this is why many think of this as toeside.  This stance is challenging for me since I have 15 yrs of changing stance on a windsurfer and never kited. 

RobM

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2020, 12:33:23 PM »
As far as terms are defined, I make it simple.  The wing is the source of power, so you're either facing it with your toes, (toeside) or you're facing away from it (heelside). 

Close, but using that analogy (the real power source) whether it be a wave or wind, you are either toeside (facing towards the wave/wind) or backside/heelside (facing away from wave/wind)
Me: 5'10" (178cm), 185lb (84kg)
Wings: Naish WingSurfer S25 5.3m,3.6m
Board: BluePlanet foil sup 6'6" 116 Lt
Foils: Axis 1000/370/short fuse (1310cm2); Neil Pryde Glide Surf L-1484cm2;
Mast: Axis 90/68cm; NP Flight 82cm,NP Glide 60cm

 


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