Author Topic: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it  (Read 2934 times)

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2020, 03:39:21 AM »
Kai Lenny talked about stance width (front to back) once in a video somewhere. As I recall, he was trying to get across the point to be relaxed, stand upright, not all squatting, low and wide. The point being, standing more upright, relaxed, natural, allows more easy movement of hips forward and back to control pitch. I think everyone whoís kite foiled strapless has this relaxed way of foiling and moves their feet to stay riding in a relaxed way.

Unless you are a kite foil racer, who has to use straps, then they are super wide stance. Which also leads into how straps affect your stance width. Strapped guys all ride wide stance. Itís a necessary evil of straps. You cannot reposition your feet for every trimming situation, so you have to ride wide. Some people are trying to create really wide straps to allow the feet to slide some inside the strap.

I had a strapped guy order a 3í11 Foilboard. He sent his strap width. I had to laugh. It was wider than the board length.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 03:46:10 AM by Dwight (DW) »

obxDave

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2020, 04:39:45 AM »
Kai Lenny talked about stance width (front to back) once in a video somewhere. As I recall, he was trying to get across the point to be relaxed, stand upright, not all squatting, low and wide. The point being, standing more upright, relaxed, natural, allows more easy movement of hips forward and back to control pitch. I think everyone whoís kite foiled strapless has this relaxed way of foiling and moves their feet to stay riding in a relaxed way.

Unless you are a kite foil racer, who has to use straps, then they are super wide stance. Which also leads into how straps affect your stance width. Strapped guys all ride wide stance. Itís a necessary evil of straps. You cannot reposition your feet for every trimming situation, so you have to ride wide. Some people are trying to create really wide straps to allow the feet to slide some inside the strap.

I had a strapped guy order a 3í11 Foilboard. He sent his strap width. I had to laugh. It was wider than the board length.
Makes good sense. Me feet just take the path of least pain and resistance.  One thing I didnít realize till looking at the video; I generally have a wider side to side stance on the wing board than the kitefoil board. Guess that makes sense since the foil wing for winging is twice as wide.......and there just isnít that much real estate to explore on a kite board.....

I tried to delete an accidental double post. Wouldnít let me do it (oh, the horror of it all  :-\ )
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 05:02:09 AM by obxDave »

SUPladomi

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2020, 07:08:22 AM »
I say we adopt the terminology of frontside or backside... JUST KIDDING!!

That is why I think it best to not use the term "switch stance" and instead use "toeside" and "weak side".

I agree that toeside should be used. Then you can differentiate with your strong/good side or weak/bad side. 

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2020, 07:43:45 AM »
I generally have a wider side to side stance on the wing board than the kitefoil board. Guess that makes sense since the foil wing for winging is twice as wide.......


Exactly the same for me too.

Whenever I tried to ride a huge, wide, foil kiting, Iíd flop in the water like seal trying to turn it. Not enough foot stagger.

I also think, the lack of foot stagger for strapped guys, is why they think they canít ride strapless and feel the same amount of control. With feet strapped on the board center, you actually do need straps. Catch-22 situation.  So theyíve got two massive mental blocks to making the transition to strapless. Riding with stagger, and the feeling of free feet.

Phils

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2020, 09:43:23 AM »
Had a nice session today (18 MPH avg on 5 meter Swing, Armstrong 2400) during which I played around with different stances.  I am definitely happier with feet staggered (off midline) and a stance wider than my kitefoiling stance.  Right before a foiling foot switch however, I do narrow my stance quite a bit.  I also move my front foot to the midline before coming around to toeside.  Right now, I cannot imagine using foot straps.

PonoBill

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2020, 09:52:35 AM »
Here's my suggestion for a simplified feet terminology:

Switchfoot = you change your front foot for each reach
Fixedfoot = you never change your front foot
Heelside = You are facing away from the wing
Toeside = You are facing the wing
Strongside = dominant foot forward
Weakside = weak foot forward
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2020, 10:11:50 AM »
Heelside = You are facing away from the wing
Toeside = You are facing the wing

Think you reversed these two.  I am trying to keep my hips and upper body facing forward going toeside (just starting to happen for me).  Too twisted up wasn't working that well and it really strains the bod.  Klaas at :04 of this vid is an inspiration.  Such a relaxed open toeside style.

https://youtu.be/6U37BkXMSHo
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 10:17:22 AM by Admin »

Thatspec

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2020, 12:16:33 PM »
Note also in that vid at :04 that when riding toeside, the back elbow has to be much more bent than if we just switched feet.
The harness has helped immensly in this situation, as does just raising the wing up further overhead.

Since I'm developing the bad habit of not switching feet often, especially downwinding (all two of them now), My rear (right) leg is not terribly happy after about an hour. I still have some numbness in my right foot from yesterday. The awkwardness of toeside (rear elbow and leg) is lessened considerable by broad reaching, downwinding is the cure ;)

Going again today anyway so can't be that bad ;D

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2020, 01:28:28 PM »
I am trying to keep my hips and upper body facing forward going toeside (just starting to happen for me).  Too twisted up wasn't working that well and it really strains the bod.

You are correct in doing this.

There is little reward over straining, by trying to twist more and lean more, when compared to what we can doing kite foiling. With kites, we only need one hand to ride, so twisting way more is effortless and rewards you. Winging is just wasted effort. No chance to match what I can do on a kite foil. Tip, an extra rear handle is a huge benefit riding toe side. It greatly reduces rear arm elbow stress grabbing farther back.

At 3:45 in this video Iím riding with no straining, just as you described.

https://youtu.be/nlTOfKgE6-8

« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 01:30:12 PM by Dwight (DW) »

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2020, 02:28:54 PM »
Lots of good suggestions here guys.  Much appreciated.

PonoBill

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2020, 10:06:52 PM »
Heelside = You are facing away from the wing
Toeside = You are facing the wing

Think you reversed these two. 

I don't get how that's reversed unless it's in some traditional sense that I don't know about. Why wouldn't you call it toeside if the wing is on the same side as your toes? In DW's video below for the first .50 minutes he's riding in the usual position, facing the wing. In what sense is that heelside? Then at .52 he gybes (jibes) keeping his feet in the same position (fixed foot?) and now he's facing away from the wing with his heels pointed toward the wing. In what sense is that toeside?

I do understand that a port tack is one where the wind is coming over the port side of your board. Are you saying where the wind is coming from should be the determining factor?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 10:16:50 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUPladomi

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2020, 10:22:28 PM »
Heelside = You are facing away from the wing
Toeside = You are facing the wing

Think you reversed these two. 

I don't get how that's reversed unless it's in some traditional sense that I don't know about. Why wouldn't you call it toeside if the wing is on the same side as your toes? In DW's video below for the first .50 minutes he's riding in the usual position, facing the wing. In what sense is that heelside? Then at .52 he gybes (jibes) keeping his feet in the same position (fixed foot?) and now he's facing away from the wing with his heels pointed toward the wing. In what sense is that toeside?

I do understand that a port tack is one where the wind is coming over the port side of your board. Are you saying where the wind is coming from should be the determining factor?

Your perspective is different than the general understanding. It is not related to the wing. It's like snowboarding. Heelside comes from leaning on your heels. Toeside leaning on your toes.

wrighty

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2020, 12:54:04 AM »
Heelside = You are facing away from the wing
Toeside = You are facing the wing

Think you reversed these two. 

I don't get how that's reversed unless it's in some traditional sense that I don't know about. Why wouldn't you call it toeside if the wing is on the same side as your toes? In DW's video below for the first .50 minutes he's riding in the usual position, facing the wing. In what sense is that heelside? Then at .52 he gybes (jibes) keeping his feet in the same position (fixed foot?) and now he's facing away from the wing with his heels pointed toward the wing. In what sense is that toeside?

I do understand that a port tack is one where the wind is coming over the port side of your board. Are you saying where the wind is coming from should be the determining factor?

Your perspective is different than the general understanding. It is not related to the wing. It's like snowboarding. Heelside comes from leaning on your heels. Toeside leaning on your toes.

Yep, sorry Bill but I totally agree with SUPladomi and Admin, it's also standard practice in kiting to call it toeside when you are facing away from the kite/wing with your weight on the toe side rail.
Riding Switch is (for all but some windsurfers) riding in your unnatural stance but still facing the wing.

Phils

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2020, 01:14:55 AM »
Another way to think about it:

The board is normally tilted in the roll axis when riding.  Heelside:  pressure on heel of foot to maintain the tilt.  Toeside:  pressure with front of foot to maintain the tilt.

PonoBill

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Re: Switch Stance, Toeside, Crossed Up, You name it
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2020, 09:33:53 AM »
Good to know, and of course that is the purpose of this exercise. OK:

Switchfoot = you change your front foot for each reach
Fixedfoot = you never change your front foot
Heelside = You are facing the wing
Toeside = You are facing away from the wing
Strongside = dominant foot forward
Weakside = weak foot forward

Anything else?

 
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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