Author Topic: Learning to foil surf - catching waves  (Read 9102 times)

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2020, 08:20:27 AM »
Hdip, you jinxed me with you “sessions 7-10 were frustrating for me” comment lol. Session 7 and too much tide and too much swell as the only waves that would push me were over waist high. But you all know the deal, I was trying to push in a session between locked down over the weekend. I’ll get more waves next time.

I really see the conditions that work now and also have a good idea on how the foil setup can be adapted for larger waves to a point. I can also feel when you just can’t stop the lift now. So I feel like my bail radar is coming. I know another boat session will help my altitude radar too.

In good news, I have recovered all my SUP in chop skills. It was windy with a wicked side backwash at the spot (North LA & Ventura guys know what I’m talking about.) It wasn’t fun but it was good practice. I am pretty sure I’d have had a better session on a prone board so next week I’ll likely take both boards and practice a bit with the prone rig too.

I caught two waves. One was just too much for me and I was headed for a breach so I bailed at the top of the wave and mast. My friend on a longboard said, “you were so high and then I saw both wings” lol I explained that that is not the correct technique.

Second one I learned more about archbars and foot placement. I caught a perfect wave and made the drop and did a dive bomb turn to the right at speed (the speed really is nuts... and fun!) when I thought about it I remembered my front foot being literally 2 inches off center to that direction. Wild.

I also laughed remembering PonoBill describing catching a wave and going down the line screaming. I get it now.

More progress, more practice. Overall I want to point out to other newbies that conditions matter way more in the beginning than what we’ve been led to believe. Really, learning in Hawaii or somewhere like that (SanO)is a great idea as you can do laps. As soon as this lockdown ends I’ll be headed to one of the islands to get a week of double sessions under my belt.

I can see how, if you had the cash, buying a rig from Blue Planet or a Maui shop and doing a week would get you a long way down the road. I’m planning a local trip to San Diego soon so I can just run 2 a days at a mushy spot. (I live an hour from the beach currently.)

In the plus column, I got to surf with friends at a beautiful spot. The moon came up and I ran down my current business plan with a friend while we watched waves crashing reflecting the moonlight not a bad end to a workday. I’m healthy, happy, and am taking my time staying safe for myself and others.

Hdip

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2020, 10:52:58 AM »
HAH! I have a new Axis setup being delivered today just in time for the lockdown. So you can expect the next 2 weeks to be flat. IE: perfect foil conditions.  You're welcome. Or does that only happen when you buy a high performance surfboard?

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2020, 03:57:35 PM »
Oh man, congratulations. Can’t wait to see that up close. Post in the Axis thread what you got and a review.

I finished that prone board this am. I’ll try to get the build thread up while I’m stuck.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2020, 09:10:43 AM »
Session 8 yesterday started to look sketchy but turned out great.

Finally met Hdip and his awesome water kids who were killing it in the shore break. I expect them to pass us surfing in 6 months lol.

Conditions are everything. Remind me of that. Luckily I had my awesome wife with me and so I got to just chill and wait it out. I was rewarded.

At 6pm swell was 1-2’ wind was probably 10-12 (no real idea lol) side/onshore. Chop was insane. Paddled out and after 5 min came back in. Waited 30 min and went out (still 30 min too soon.) but at 7 the wind dropped and kept dropping til dark (8:30 or so)

At 7:15 the crowd died with the sun and wind and I was left with the exact same conditions as my last solid session. 1-2 mushy but a small peak that backs off so you get pushed in. I caught everything I went for and got maybe 5 waves in 30 min.

Interesting observation from me and my wife. I felt like I was flying the foil but she said, “I couldn’t really see when you took off”. I chalked it up to my short (45cm) mast. But then I thought about the feeling and sound and looked at the surfline replay and realized that my tail was in the wave but the front 75% of the board was “flying”. This is a great way to safely learn and I remember you guys saying, “you can feel the wing before you take off.” I could tell by sound and feel the few times I fully lifted off. This also is going to be key for learning to prone foil and I feel much better about that now knowing I can half fly on this mast.

Now that I know these conditions and crowd level I will hit this spot after work a few times and get some miles in before going to larger mast (65cm.)

Technique Tip: The archbar front and back continues to make or break waves. Now that I am careful to get my feet on the center every time it’s as if the foil is on tracks. I suspect this is what made the whole “strapped” thing such a big deal back a while ago. Foot Position is key. But my experience is that you can replicate that with an arch bar and if your wing is balanced right the front/back takes care of itself if your stance is consistent.

I’m also going to bring my prone board to practice paddling in when the chop is too bad for SUP. Starting to see how Prone, SUP, and Wing fit into conditions. Here’s my early take based on limited experience. But I think I see why SUP foil surfing isn’t as dominant as it was.

Too much wind, Wing. Duh.
A bit of chop, prone
Close to shore, short paddle, prone
Clean but long paddle, SUP
Clean and long session, SUP

I’m sure this will change for me but at my level of fitness I can get longer sessions on a SUP just due to the larger muscles used. Socially, I’ll probably prone more too just to sit and hang with my buddies on crappy longboard days and fit in better should we get an uncrowded session. (At least until they all give in to the dark side.)

Summary, 8 sessions, which for a weekender is 4-8 weeks, and I’m having fun now. Still just getting wings but the early frustrations are easing as long as I watch conditions and am patient.

Califoilia

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2020, 09:30:06 AM »
But I think I see why SUP foil surfing isn’t as dominant as it was.

Summary, 8 sessions, which for a weekender is 4-8 weeks, and I’m having fun now. Still just getting wings but the early frustrations are easing as long as I watch conditions and am patient.
First sentence is true because a lot of the early "tryers" didn't expect the bold would last as long as it does for the most part, and throw in the towel before the "easing" part arrives. Not to mention that most of the SUP foiler tend to be of the "older" crowd...who were/are well past their "proner foil", short board popup days.

Well I know of at least one guy who fits that description, and that would have loved to have had this foil craze stuff come out when he was still prone surfing anything...but those days are way, way back in the rearview mirror by now. :-[:(

Good to hear you're having fun, and sticking with it cowboy, that's really all there is to it, and you're approaching that "aha" moment when suddenly one day it'll all click, and you'll look back at these days wondering..."geez, why did I think this was that hard to do?"  :D
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 09:32:24 AM by SanoSlatchSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2020, 09:38:01 AM »
Sano, I feel you. Notice that I expect that I'll prefer SUP for longer sessions. That trend will continue should I get lucky enough to last a few more decades. In clean conditions I'll bet I can get down to the low 5' range and maybe 25" (26?) wide in clean conditions.

I agree too that the sport likely lost a lot of potential SUP foilers early on to learning curve. As I say over and over, I can't imagine learning this on a Kai Foil in 2017. It's so much easier now, I'm sure. But please don't tell anyone. I don't want to blow up the spots that I'm scoping up here. Me, Hdip, and Steamroller are enough crowd for LA County.

I still think that SUP foil is preferable for certain spots. Seems like anywhere you are getting long rides you'd want the paddle. While I like the freedom of the small board, take heart that really, paddling prone 100 yards+ over and over is not going to be fun for even the most fit of us.

Califoilia

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2020, 10:02:12 AM »
I still think that SUP foil is preferable for certain spots. Seems like anywhere you are getting long rides you'd want the paddle. While I like the freedom of the small board, take heart that really, paddling prone 100 yards+ over and over is not going to be fun for even the most fit of us.
That's the thing with the prone foilers...they don't paddle 100+ yards but once on the paddle out...they pump back out to wherever it is they're going, and doing it a couple times before finally running out of gas, and letting the board settle back down into the water next to the rest of their buddies in the lineup.

I applaud them...only wish I still had the skills and stamina to do the same. But as Clint once said, "A man's got to know his limitations", and I definitely know mine.  ;) ;D
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2020, 08:51:28 AM »
Patience, wanted to post about this for other beginners. While I’m frothing this weekend the tides and conditions don’t match up with my spot so I’m taking a week off. It’s killing me but I’m just not in the place to go in sub-par conditions yet.

Minor vent so that I can read it later and laugh or confirm it. I’m frustrated by the lack of suitable beginner conditions near me. My fear is that I won’t have enough spots I can foil SUP regularly and that I won’t adapt to prone foiling and be stuck with a favorite pastime that I’m even more constrained by. I know fears mostly aren’t real but I’m trying to post up my whole journey here.

As far as prone goes, SanO is right, people have limits. I’m not a strong prone surfer and don’t surf anything under 7’ so not sure if I’ll ever have the consistent time on water to move down, though I remain positive and am going to train as best I can to do this while I might physically still have the chops. Again, the mental game, try for the best you can, but be grateful for whatever you get. This lesson is hard for many of us to learn.

I’m hoping that smaller wings and the experience to handle higher speeds (so much speed!) will get me to where I can ride junky waist high waves, of which we have a ton lol. Anyway, wanted to post this as it’s part of learning. It’s a mind game as much as physical.

I also think I need some foilSUP role models as I think Steamroller might be the only guy other than Laird within like 50 miles of me lol.

For the guys complaining about gear being expensive, access to the best foil spot in LA County starts at about $4MM+ for a key. lol (Hdip, no guilt, I’m sure I know someone too, just haven’t bothered to check.) Still think this sport is going to lead me to an inflatable dinghy and outboard... or Costa Rica.

Anyway, I get to surf a couple of the best longboard spots in the world today if I want. Remember gratitude always. That is the thought for today.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 09:04:47 AM by surfcowboy »

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2020, 03:58:38 PM »
Oh, and watching good SUPfoilers on YouTube helps remind you of what’s possible once you put in the time.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2020, 10:06:41 AM »
Session 9 - again, my beginner spot, end of the day, on the right tide and waiting for the wind to drop, waves knee high at best.

Great session. Saw Hdip leaving as I was coming. We’d better get along because we somehow end up at the same spots at the same time weekly lol.

Progress, missed far less waves once the wind dropped and I got warmed up. If I go for a well formed wave, I get it. Was able to get the nose down on the larger waves and overall was able to start playing with altitude and getting out in front of the wave. I noticed actual silence which means I got my tail out of the wave.

Decided to try to go down the line and the acceleration is wild. I think I will need to swap out to my longer mast soon as the big wing has got to be poking out of the wave when I turn even a bit on the face.

I learned this from the videos. In fact, I understand a crash in a way that was never explained here (that I saw.) when I went to turn, I barely weighted as per suggestions and I turned down the line to the right (I’m good, so backside.) The acceleration was clear and then almost immediately I taco’d with the board flipping left. I wasn’t pushing it over (that I know) I’m assuming I breached the left tip out of the face due to my short mast. That would cause this. I hopped clear and was in no danger which brought me another tip I’d like to offer and get feedback on.

When you start turning, go backside first. If I’d gone frontside I’d have most likely taco’d with the foil going right which would have sent it at my front. With an impact vest and helmet, am I right that a back attack is likely less dangerous? This is simply due to me being in SoCal and a goofy but it feels safer to me.

I’m going to maybe do one more session on this mast unless I get a boat session in where I can get used to the tall mast. But I think I’m ready to graduate to 65cm.

Next thing to work on, turning. Not sure if I should keep this going or start a part 2 on that. Feedback? Admin?

Next steps are turning while remembering to drop the nose a bit to account for the wing depth and acceleration (which of course brings you higher.) can’t wait to feel that diver bomber turn for real that I experienced during a fall. It’s addictive.

Also, while I can’t seem to get the rhythm of pumping onto a wave while paddling yet, I can fully speed myself up. That’s really fun and I can see how pumping itself becomes fun. Can’t wait til I can kick out and see how far I can go.

Overall, 9 sessions and I’m ready to work on going down the line. So 2 months if you’re a weekender and it’s already super fun.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2020, 07:51:40 AM »
Ok, so I need to update this thread for sure for all the beginners out there.

I had a slow month where I couldn’t really foil (conditions, tide, swell, schedule) but I made up for it in Sept. I got probably 5-6 sessions in so I’m maybe 16 sessions in now?

Biggest change is that I switched to an 1100 cm2 Curve M wing. So yeah, dropped from a 2100 to 1100 and a thinner profile. It’s been huge for me as I can keep it in the water and take most any drop without fear of launching myself. Huge confidence booster and has allowed me to go out in knee to waist high waves and not fear the big ones.

Now, this weekend a buddy said, “hey looks like you’re struggling to keep that wing up” and yes, it’s not flying as much as I’d like but when there’s push I get short flights. I actually want to go on record saying that if you don’t have access to a Waikiki style wave, this is a good strategy, if you can afford to have multiple wings.

Staying on progression, I can fly, do some proto-pumping, and feel pretty good. Time to work on flying more. (Bigger mast) and start turning down the line to see if I stay on this wing (down the line should provide more speed than straight) or move slightly up.

One issue with SUP foiling is that 2 spots  I’ve foiled have a crazy current as the tide moves and that is a hassle to stand and paddle in. I basically can’t rest at all so I do short sessions, go rest, and then come back out. The current grabs the foil and it’s like someone jerking your leash when you turn. Not fun. Hope to get to where I can prone foil eventually and pick my gear according to spot and conditions.

Next steps are to hope for some wind. I really want to learn to turn the foil with my wind wing so I don’t have to deal with surf. I feel like a couple of hours on foil will let me rocket ahead.

As to gear next steps, I’m torn. I’d love advice. I want to try some smaller tails and to build myself some tails I can shim for the Gong fuse. That’s a start I know from watching this board. That will help me raise the lift on the M and also reduce it for my XL so I might find something that works there. I also might just buy a Curve L and move it back a bit in the box. I think that might be best for surfing longer term. 20% more wing seems like a manageable bump and might end up being a great all-around wing til I go HA next year. I see guys pump the Curve/Pro all the time on YouTube with a smaller (kite) tail, as someone mentioned.

Anyone in SoCal got a Pro/Curve L I can try? If not, if shipping isn’t too bad I’ll just get one and “zone it” if it’s wonky. Weird to be working up on the surf side and then down on the wing side. Hoping to eventually settle on a couple of wings that cover surf and wing, overlapping in the middle. Solent Gives me hope that my small wave surf wing and better wind wind wing might overlap if so that’d leave me with a quiver of 3 and a couple of tails to potentially cover 3 types of foiling.

Califoilia

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2020, 05:19:53 PM »
When you coming up to Sano? We can swap gear, and I've got a bunch Axis wing and stab combos you can try to see if a different style of wing feels better, and I wouldn't mind trying the Gong wings to see where they fall in the foil brand performance spectrum.
 
I'm not saying there's anything wrong the Gong wings at all....but I can say that from 1st hand experience that sometimes the wrong setup for an individual can hold them back much more than they understand or realize. Years ago I started on the original Sling-something wings they had out, and couldn't keep them aloft for anything. Then got the Go Foil Iwa/Maliko combo, and was up and flying in a session or two (since I had a pretty good idea of what not to do already with all the time I put in with the other setup I started with).

Just a thought.  :-\
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2020, 06:22:20 PM »
Thx San O. And yes, I’ll try other stuff but I’m keeping the XL aloft fine (too well in waves lol) and like I said on anything waist high this thing is nice. It’s just that I literally went down to a wing with 50% of the area due to a good deal. Splitting the difference might be a sensible option right? lol way too sensible for me.

I also like that when I’m ballsy enough to tow or play in bigger waves I’ll have a great wing that can likely hold any speed I want to do. This will be my goto for behind the boat for sure.

Man, I gotta come down and yes, thx for the offer of trying some gear. My Carlsbad week was a bust due to work. (Hey, I cant complain about being successful during a pandemic and getting to work from a condo on the beach but I still will lol) I kept meaning to text and at least say hey. But I may have solved my lack of an e-bike, that 1.5-2hr wait is rough.

I’ll return the favor with a wing session up at Belmont when/if you want to see what it’s like in real wind. I’ll have a couple of boards soon and there are a lot of wings around in my new crew.

The LA crew is all about Axis so I’m being hammered with guys in love with the 900. The LA Axis / GoFoil gang wars of 2020 will be as famous as the crips and bloods someday.

Califoilia

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2020, 07:39:28 PM »
The LA crew is all about Axis so I’m being hammered with guys in love with the 900. The LA Axis / GoFoil gang wars of 2020 will be as famous as the crips and bloods someday.
Hahaha....yeah, the LAFC is a fun crew, and some of them actually make it down to Sano...lol  ;D

But I really gotta get up to SBJ sometime and party with those fellas some...because that place looks really fun when it's working (which seems like all the time lately :o).
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

surfcowboy

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Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2020, 08:37:24 PM »
Do it! I was there Sat and even I got some nice rides. ;) There’s a ton of good footage on Instagram this week. Steamroller keeps it fresh with the Top Gun references.

 


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