Author Topic: BRM Wings  (Read 3729 times)

Dwight (DW)

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2020, 08:00:38 AM »
Also wanted to say my comments above might sound like BS. Its one of those things you dont realize until you experience it, then you go oh wow, alright, I like this.

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2020, 08:55:14 AM »
Glad to see him taking the lead on two wide, stiff handles.  The wings look good but that looks great.  I'd rather see them leave this modular and user position-able but this is a fine start.  Did he mention what he is doing internally to add rigidity to the handles?

In the (very long but very interesting) video linked in the first post above, Greg details how he put attachment points for Y-handles and a few other attachment points if people want to customize.  He's not supplying those handles, but it does look like there is some of the flexibility in positioning that you're looking for.

It looks like his stock handles are rigid and are braced against the strut so that they don't twist, flop or distort.  That is where its at.  It seems crazy to me that this is not already the status quo but that is where we are.  This is a great start and I am very happy to see the ball rolling but I think someone could (and will) take it to the next level by offering handle modularity (both handle type and position). He talked a lot about handle placement but this varies a lot by rider size and preference.  Chan uses different handles than I do.  One guy may love an angled front while another may not.  Modularity will allow everyone to have their own perfect.  No more wearing someone else's socks.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 09:17:45 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 10:00:48 AM »
It is crazy more people have not done what HOT is doing, then take it to a whole new level by now.

Look at some of the very clever plastic bits Neil Pryde did with sails. Batten tensioner, clew fitting, etc. Then Duotones slick ratchet lever downhaul. The engineering people are in place to solve this. Come on....lets get it done.

AGK

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One-week-in review of Cloud W1 wings
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2020, 07:42:43 AM »
Ive had the Clouds for a week and five sessions on the 4, 5 and 6.  My assessment is in relation to the F1 6 and 4.2 Swings that I learned on I dont have experience on any other wings.

[Background: I learned on the Swings between early March and early July, and liked them a lot.  I had three years previous kitefoil experience.  The W1s were used with Axis 1020/400 hydrofoil wings and a 51 90 liter SUP Surf Machines board (great board!!!).  I weigh 175 lbs. and would describe myself as a competent but average-at-best foiler.  Additional disclaimer I was a big fan of the Cloud kites that I used for four years, and so was predisposed positively toward Boardriding Maui products ]

I really like the dual Boston valve inflation system (one for the leading edge, one for the strut).  They are located right next to each other, so there is minimal hassle in changing the pump from one to the other adds less than a minute to total inflation relative to a one-pump like the Swings.   Very, very easy to deflate and pack.

The handles (there are only two on the strut) are way, way better than the F1s.  They are completely stiff and the angle on the front handle works great, as does the handle placement.  So far in both underpowered and overpowered conditions I have felt no need for other handles, although I do slide my rear hand forward and back on the longer handle some.  The handles have eliminated most of the strain I felt in my hands with the F1s.

The wing is much more rigid and pumps onto a foil much better than the F1 and also pumps through lulls better.

The biggest difference between the W1 and the Swings is the forward pull relative to arm strain.  With the Swings I was using a harness to go upwind and still getting a lot of rear-arm strain at the end of sessions.  The W1s stay well forward (on the axis from back to front of the board) of where the Swings liked to be, and they put WAY less strain on my arms, which can stay pretty comfortably extended.  The last two days have been 4-meter days with ~20 mph gusty winds, and I have not needed to use the harness at all.

A big design emphasis on the W1s is how they park with no power unfortunately, I cant really give much feedback on this since our wind swell has been pretty small and I am also not very experienced downwind foiling with no wind power.  What I can say is that the wing is significantly more stable overhead than the Swings  during jibes and when riding partially powered on very broad reaches.

Bottom line (so far) I loved my Swings, but the Clouds are better in pretty much every respect.  That may be true of lots of other generation 2 wings but these are working great for me so far.  Additionally, if you buy a quiver (as I did) then the pricing is quite a bit better than F1/Naish/Slingshot/Ensis and more on par with Gong/Switch.

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2020, 08:23:23 AM »
Bill and I got to play with a 4 meter BRM on the beach yesterday. 

We were both shocked by how stiff it is.  I have not felt another wing in that category of stiffness.  Owner said he thought it was inflated to 6 PSI but wasn't 100% sure. 

Handles felt great.  Best handles I have felt yet (by a lot).  Still room for improvement as they are reinforced soft handles rather than fully rigid and they still have some sway but - great.  I liked the feel of the back handle a lot more than the angled front, but that was beach only.  Water may change that and I didn't dislike the front, it was just that the back felt awesome and better. 

I love the compact shape of the 4 and down.  The owner went out on the 5 later in the day and that one looked odd to me.  Very long at the strut.  I have never seen the 6.

AGK, could you post up images of your larger wings (5 and 6)?

Very cool to see this in person.

AGK

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2020, 09:42:17 AM »

I love the compact shape of the 4 and down.  The owner went out on the 5 later in the day and that one looked odd to me.  Very long at the strut.  I have never seen the 6.

AGK, could you post up images of your larger wings (5 and 6)?


Will do on the pics --  might take me a day or so.

I will measure the struts on the 5 and 6.  It makes sense that they are longer given the compactness of the big sizes from tip to tip -- the 6 is much shorter tip to tip than the F1 6, and (for me) way less prone to catching a tip while pumping, and easier to recover if you do hit the water with a tip.

PonoBill

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2020, 09:49:16 AM »
I was shocked at the rigidity of the wing--I did the standard wing tip flex test and couldn't bend it. My same size F-one wing at higher pressure bends easily.

I like the low aspect design, but the five-meter did look kind of awkward. I think you'd need some long arms to get comfortable.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

obxDave

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2020, 09:51:59 AM »
Andy riding one of his Clouds the other day. He could tell you the size. From my viewpoint it looked rock solid. No flex,  no flutter. He looked completely at home on it despite the gusty conditions

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2020, 10:07:16 AM »
I really like the idea of a separate strut valve as well. And he makes a 2.0.  Lots of good improvements here.  Getting tempted...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 10:10:20 AM by Admin »

AGK

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2020, 10:14:09 AM »
I have the 3 and the 2 (it's actually a 2.2 -- only one not true to the integer size).  Really hope I get to test them, but here on the OBX that probably means waiting till September nor'easters or pre-hurricane winds.  They're both still new and unpumped in the bag.

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2020, 10:40:30 AM »
Sounds great AGK.  Chan will live on those sizes :).  We will all be stoked to see any images you put up.  Thanks!

PonoBill

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2020, 03:37:49 PM »
I'd still like a 2.xx for the crazy gorge days. Big BIG wind is big fun if you aren't grossly overpowered. The last one we had my 3.5 was yanking me around like it was an overpowered 6M.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Phils

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2020, 08:25:32 PM »
Very interesting. So is the general feeling that the stiffness will translate into more efficient drive generated when pumping up on foil?

paddlur

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2020, 07:49:49 AM »
Whats the consensus on sizing have heard there a running or feeling a bit bigger say a .5 to 1m bigger than numbered for instance the 6m is riding more like 7m the 5 like 6m? Im liking that! Only thing Im apprehensive is the 2 handle only location with all the variables of rider weight sizes can 2 handles be in right location for different riders weights size hmmm
Naish kites-mhl lift foils-GoFoil-ASD surfboards fortaleza brasil,Kalama supfoil.AXIS foils

AGK

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Re: BRM Wings
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2020, 08:56:42 AM »
Sounds great AGK.  Chan will live on those sizes :).  We will all be stoked to see any images you put up.  Thanks!

Going to give Dropbox links to the images rather than figure out how to upload.  The 5 has a strut length (measured from where it meets the leading edge to the tip of 80 inches, and the distance from the back of the front handle to the front of the back handle is 22.5 inches.  Images at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8fa6u0yy8umyxnk/AABy6R0nlvCWsmVb3s_CmdT8a?dl=0

The 6 has a strut length of 85 inches and a handle-to-handle distance of 25.5 inches.  Images at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/debmxtuvopntvrd/AABScpXHnWnTgmy1_J4Bk3fva?dl=0

So far I have found the handles on both wings to be comfortable and well-placed to control the wing.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 09:12:53 AM by AGK »

 


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