Author Topic: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard  (Read 882 times)

wateraintcold

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Hello again and thanks for your responses to my first thread.

When you're touring on a hardboard, do you offload all the gear to then take the board out of the water and place it on the beach / rocks / whatever is there where you're beaching?

Or is a short drag from the surf to the beach innocuous enough to the bottom of the board? I believe this would generate some superficial damage of course, but would it affect the structural integrity of the bottom?

Also, is this superficial "sanding" repairable with those epoxy kits?

I'm still trying to understand the logistics for operating a hardboard on day/multiday tours. If even a 1-5 meter drag to get a loaded hardboard out of the water is considered too risky, then I can't see how a hardboard can be better than an inflatable for this situation. This is, the inflatable penalty of reduced on-water performance is more than offset by the praticality of not having to worry about inflicting non-repairable damage to the board at every single getting-on-shore event.

On the other hand, with a hardboard if I can drag the board out loaded and not be concerned about structural damage, and then once a year do a minor superficial repair work then that's acceptable.

I'll appreciate your feedback on how you get on and off the water with a loaded hardboard. Thanks again!
paddling since 2018. 5'11", currently 170lb (in freedom units)

2017 Red Paddle Explorer 12'6" x 32"

PonoBill

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 03:42:36 PM »
Inflatables are obviously much more resistant to damage, and I'm a lousy guy to respond given my proven ability to break shit (or maybe the best, for the same reason). If you insist on things staying pretty then grinding your board up a beach is going to make you crazy, and even an inflatble won't like it much. But unless its sharp stuff, or you hit at speed, it really won't do much. If you're really worried about it, stick a couple of NSI loop tiedowns on the top deck near the nose and add a loop of line. Grab, lift and walk ashore. You might doink the fin a little, but you can sand a ding out of a fin in ten minutes.

I have tiedown loops on the nose of my venerable 17' V1 for just that purpose. Most places we land in the gorge are a bit rocky. I'm not carrying gear, just making it easier to control the board when I land. I drag it up until the rudder hits, then go pick it up. Easy, peasy. I'll post a picture later.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

wateraintcold

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 04:00:41 PM »
Thanks PonoBill that's the kind of insight from experienced paddles I'm looking for (even more from those with a proven ability to break shit hehe). I hadn't considered using the fin instead of the whole board to help carry it to shore. Much cheaper to maintain and eventually replace a fin.

For me it's not about keeping the board pretty or aesthetical, it's purely about maintaining structural integrity. Since I've never dealt with fiberglass in paddleboards I don't know how it behaves (and I want to learn as much as I can from others before I pay to gain my own experience).

Looking forward to those photos. If you can take a photo of the underside of the bow that'll help me understand what a "normally" used bow looks like. Thanks!

paddling since 2018. 5'11", currently 170lb (in freedom units)

2017 Red Paddle Explorer 12'6" x 32"

blackeye

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 05:05:50 PM »
My very old Starboard Touring 14 is a bit of a carbon queen, ie look at it wrong and the carbon skin gets punctured. It's no good on the foredeck of a sailboat, and it gets bumped and jostled from other boards while launching it from a boat. I haven't ever loaded it up for touring, but I bet I'd find out pretty quick that thin carbon is not a great material for dragging over rocky oyster beds.

Edit: Like Pono I have a line across two tie downs and use it the same way. I also use it to clip a small dry bag and water bottle. The supplied elastic was useless as a tie down - one wave and... yard sale.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 05:10:56 PM by blackeye »

TallDude

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 07:15:58 PM »
Plenty of info here. Will (EgoSchmitty here on the Zone) has paddled thousands and thousands of touring miles all loaded up. A link to his videos.  https://vimeo.com/willschmidtsup?utm_campaign=2470763&utm_source=affiliate&utm_channel=affiliate&cjevent=c4d5d69e97e011ea83bd023b0a1c0e0f

He mostly paddles outriggers now.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I don't use.

wateraintcold

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 10:49:54 PM »
Thanks for sharing this great documentary! If anything, forget about gear and just take care of your nipples haha! Joke aside what an amazing feat of perseverance and teamwork, congratulations to Will Schmidt and his crew.
paddling since 2018. 5'11", currently 170lb (in freedom units)

2017 Red Paddle Explorer 12'6" x 32"

Area 10

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 02:42:16 AM »
IMO donít drag boards. Inflatables are not indestructible, and if you put a small hole in your hard board that you canít see, it can suck up water and give you huge problems.

There are some plastic SUPs that are virtually indestructible. They are extremely heavy and awful to use. But you can drag them.

If you absolutely have to drag a hard board, then IĎd install helicopter tape on the nose and then lift the tail using the leash and drag it a very short way to beach it and then unload, making sure that the only area that touches the ground is the area covered by helicopter tape. And/or maybe you could get a local repairer to install a Kevlar/innegra strip where you are going to drag it. Most SUPs are not designed for being dragged. Many of them are woefully fragile. Some will even have small stones etc penetrate the skin if you just leave a heavy load resting on the board on land. The outer layer of these boards is typically very thin indeed. The skin of some single carbon layer race boards is only about 1-2mm thick. Full PVC sandwich boards are a lot more durable but are usually so expensive you wouldnít want to be dragging them anywhere.

It does sound like you might be better off with an inflatable maybe. But Iíve seen them go pop when dragged over sharp stones. There is even a video out there somewhere of a guy in Alaska or similar paddling his board when it brushes up against some rocks and immediately springs a leak. Itís an issue because the water is freezing... itís a pretty alarming video. Last summer I had one of the most expensive inflatable SUPs on the market suddenly start to deflate while I was about a mile offshore and was just paddling along. It turns out there was a manufacturing fault with the valve installation. But it means that Iím never going to paddle anywhere far from shore on an inflatable ever again, and not carry anything that either floats or is of little value to me. I know that people do do multi day wilderness trips using inflatable SUPs, but that seems to me to be putting too much confidence in the integrity of ISUPs. But I guess we all have to make our own risk assessments.

singingdog

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 04:29:43 AM »
I am still waiting to see a touring board that is properly designed for getting in/out of the water on rocky shorelines. Stepping off a loaded board, in waves, then trying to wrestle with the nose of the board to get control: pffft! A simple handle - like a touring kayak - on both the nose and the stern would increase the usability of almost any touring board.

burchas

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 04:32:25 AM »
Let's try it the kook way :D Since it's a day trip, you might as well carry a very light, closed cell foam rolled mat. As soon as you land, place it under the board about 2 feet from the nose and grab those NSI tie downs you installed per Bill's suggestion. I reckon it gives you about 2.5 meter of scratch free landing strip. Repeat if needed and then unroll the mat, stretch down and drink your beer worry free. If used in conjunction with a Large area shallow fiberglass fin like a river keel, chances are you may not even scratch the keel. Those $10 Amazon items can go a long way sometimes, literally in your case :)
in progress...

Area 10

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 06:43:09 AM »
Yep. Or do what rest of us do: carry your gear in a backpack, and then as you approach the waterís edge, put the backpack on your back and lift the goddam board out of the water and put it down gently somewhere suitable, ideally soft or flat.

Itís less effort than getting a board repaired, or being stranded because you put a hole in it.

My touring board is so stable that I can reach down, unclip the backpack from the bungees and put it on my back all while still remaining on my feet.

Quickbeam

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 07:18:54 AM »
I donít do the kind of touring youíre doing wateraintcold, but I would never drag any kind of hardboard on the ground. Iím a bit of a freak when it comes to caring for gear though. Iíve spent a fair bit of money on my gear, so I tend to treat it gingerly.

I donít treat inflatables with quite the same care, as they are more robust. But having said that, if I was out in the middle of nowhere by myself, I also wouldnít be dragging my inflatable. I remember seeing the video Area 10 is referring to, and it was definitely a wake up call.

There is an old adage that says if you treat your gear well it will treat you well.
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PonoBill

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 08:49:31 AM »
Here's a picture of the NSI loops. NSI makes a lot of very useful stuff and will do custom work as well. the build everything in a miniature factory in a strip mall here in Hood River. Cool company.



Note the wad of aluminum and duct tape on the nose. That's both ding repair and for loading. I generally load my 17' boards myself in one of the windiest places I've ever been. If you go tail first (I do) the nose is likely to get banged.

In my experience, a lot of damage to boards happens getting in and out of the water. A loop of line on the nose and a tail handle makes it easy to control the board, whether you have help or are by yourself. I'm clumsy as hell, so the notion of lifting a backpack onto my back and carrying my board over slippery rocks sounds like an opprtunity for a lot of slapstick routines that end with the board falling onto the rocks with me and the backpack sprawled across it. Being able to lift the nose and middle of the board clear of everything, walk forward until the fin touches, make whatever other preparations you need to do, then carry the board clear of the water and rocks is what permitted the V1 (the blue board) to survive nine years of almost daily spring/summer use in the Columbia getting in and out of the water on a rocky shore, often with thigh-high swells and 30 MPH wind. It's a bit battered and frequently repaired, and it's heavier than it started (unfortunately it's an EPS production board) but it's still in use (assuming I get over my foil addiction). I don't recall that any of the many dings came from my landing method. This poor board blew out of my hands in a 45mph wind and caressed a few trees. I patched it with some tape and did the run. Which brings up another subject--bring along a few feet of aluminum tape. It's the best temporary patch material I've found. Some of my "temporary" aluminum tape patches are five or more years old. You have to store it in a way that keeps it from getting wrinkled since it's hard to get a smooth patch if it is, but I view it as a must-have item even for my non-touring use.

The board on the bottom of that stack is the venerable Starboard 12'2", which is the first SUP board Starboard made. It's younger (barely) brother is the Starboard 12'6" which is what I'd use if I were doing touring. Tough as a boot, easy to manuver, glides well and easy to handle. I don't know if they are made anymore--I doubt it, but if you can dig up an old survivor it's probably bulletproof. They are made like windsurfers, with semi-sandwich construction. My other choice would be something from Jimmy Lewis in full sandwich construction.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 08:59:51 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

OkiWild

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 09:09:56 AM »
I'm looking at something like the Blue Planet Tuf-Tech boards, but their longest is only 11'6". I also do expedition sea kayaking, and beaching a loaded boat just destroys them over time. You try to put the nose on the beach, and unload it. I've used foam rollers, and a bunch of other tricks, but it's not always smooth, and sometimes you just have to drag it up the rocky beach. I started using my SUP race boards for short crossing island camping, but they're fragile... I only take one Seal Line back-pack dry bag, and can throw it on and carry everything up the beach in one haul. But sometimes there's nowhere soft to set the board, or there can be some shore-pound getting out, which makes it tough to keep the board from getting damaged. Heavy, but I'm just going with a bulletproof board, and be done with it.   

PonoBill

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 10:03:02 AM »
Blue Planet makes great stuff, I'm not familiar with their Tuf-Tech stuff, but I just read the specs. ABS plus a polycarbonate layer is going to be fairly bulletproof. Looks like a great choice. I 3d printed some PC parts and discovered why people said it was worthwhile to modify my hot end to reach the higher temp required for PC. It's a LOT stronger than ABS or PLA. I know Jimmy makes full sandwich boards which makes them both a lot stronger and more leak resistant--the PVC foam in the sandwich doesn't absorb water, though if you manage to punch through two layers of glass and one of PVC they are EPS on the inside. There are a few companies doing molded boards. The Bic Ace-tec boards are extremely tough, as are the Isle softop boards which are made of ixpe. You could take a chainsaw to these and they wouldn't leak since ixpe is completely impregnable to water.

Molded boards are NOT going to be available in a lot of shapes and sizes--the molds are expensive and of course one mold makes one board size. The construction speed is limited by the number of molds available.

I actually think something in the 11-12' range is pretty ideal for casual paddling or touring. Easy to handle, easy to paddle, and you don't really lose much on average speed unless you compare it to a 14' race board. Most of the times I did the Cape Cod Bay crossing it was on a 12' board. One of the most surprisingly fast paddlers on the crossing (ranging from 28 to 36 miles in one long day) was on a 10' longboard and had a paddling technique that would have cramped up my entire body in fifteen minutes. I wouldn't be nervous about the limited length of the Blue Planet board, it looks like a great choice. I'd also look at their Polynesian Ohana if you think you'll have some heavyweights. At 11' X 35" with wide nose and tail, it could carry a hippo.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 10:21:14 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

robon

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Re: effects and repairability of beaching a loaded touring hardboard
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 02:50:56 PM »
Good thread and there are so many different ways to try and mitigate impacts of landing and taking off with a loaded board.

I will sometimes nose up onto protected beaches that I know are sand, and turn the board 180 degrees, lifting from the rear leash attachment to protect the fin/fin box.  If there is shore break, I sometimes time it to quickly lift the board by the carry handle and the bungee up front, by grabbing the bungee at the closest attachment to the board, and you will be grabbing the bungee at two points in one hand to help in lifting the board. I will quickly lift the board and it will typically be loaded heavier at one end so a rail may still be touching the water, but most of your board is up out of the water. You just need to make sure you are grabbing at the attachment point right off the board, with two bungees in your hand. It's not a pretty method, but you just do it and get it done. You can practice with a loaded board in calm water, in your yard etc.

What works the best is NSI loops and straps, and then your gear doesn't slip to one side as easily but you can still carry a board that has bungee attachments described above..  It's also a good suggestion having that extra attachment at the front of the board. Cant say enough good things about NSI loop attachments. I would rather a board just come bare or the standard factory attachments of four points up front, and then outfit the board myself with NSI tie downs.

I will also stand in the water if it's too rocky, and/or a shore break, and just take my dry bags off and toss the bags to the shore, or wear my back pack dry bags and carry the board. It's a bit of a process no matter how you end up doing it, but dragging your board often isn't optimal and it will take damage over time if you do.   I have many scratches on my Sunova Expedition, and I knew going in that I would be launching and landing on many different rocky shorelines, so it's not going to stay in showroom condition for it's intended purposes.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 02:54:21 PM by robon »