Author Topic: Surfboards (Longboards)  (Read 53606 times)

Night Wing

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #165 on: May 23, 2023, 06:59:04 AM »
@ Badger

You really cannot prone surf a sup because they are not designed to be prone surfed. They are too wide in width.

As an example, my 9'3" Parallax is 23 1/2" in width. Easy to prone paddle because of it's width. It is also designed to paddle fast when prone paddling back out from the beach to catch a wave. So I get the maximum amount of effort with the least amount of energy expended. This is why, even at my 73 years of age, my surfing sessions are around 3 hours long with rest breaks included.

My 11'1" One World sup is 30" in width and it is not designed to be prone paddled because it is too wide. Longboards and sups are "two different animals".

The reason why I don't foil is two fold.

Where I surf, the water is basically shallow out to 300 yards from the beach. The waves are wind driven. The bottom is sand and the sand is brown in color. When the wind comes up really good, the brown sand gets caught in suspension so from the bottom to the surface of the water, the water looks like "chocolate milk" in color.

Foil boards have the wing underneath the board. If the water is brown in color, since one can't see the sand bars, if the wing hits the sandbar, the foiler is going to go air borne.

Lastly, if the wave forecast is for waist high waves with a 7 second period and the foiler gets down to the beach and the waves are knee high with a 7 second period, the foiler is going to have to constantly "pump their legs" to keep foiling.

If I had to pump my legs to foil, after 15 minutes of time, my legs would be worn out and subsequently, my energy level would be spent for the day. This is my definition of "work and not fun".

Since I now have three new pop-ups which are easy for me to do and take less energy to do, I can keep longboard surfing.

One last item. With Thunderbolt Red construction, this type of construction makes any longboard easy on the body when riding it. In other words, easy on your knees.

To sum up. I'm 5'8" and weigh 144 pounds.

Below is review of the Parallax from a guy named Travis who is 6'4" and weighs 240 pounds. He rides a longer 9'9" Parallax with a Flying Diamonds 10.0 Involvement fin and he gives some great details from riding his Parallax and I agree with him since my 9'3" acts the same when I'm riding it.

The video is best seen in 1080p high definition and in full screen mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiXHlzVd-Pk
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Badger

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #166 on: May 24, 2023, 03:49:37 AM »
SUPs do have a slight disadvantage paddling prone but it can be done. They are by far easier to pop up on from a prone position due to their stability. That's why many surf schools use SUPs for teaching the basics of prone surfing.

My foil board is 23" wide and I sometimes have to prone paddle when the wind dies. I get so exhausted prone paddling that I usually alternate with knee paddling to get back to shore.

There seem to be quite a few videos of people Foiling at Surfside and Quintana beaches. Wing foilers have the advantage of not having to pump the foil to get back out.

https://youtu.be/jRUVjyghQt8

https://youtu.be/R5aYbGPUtuo

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« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 04:30:05 AM by Badger »
Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L wingfoil
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

sflinux

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #167 on: May 24, 2023, 06:05:36 AM »
You really cannot prone surf a sup because they are not designed to be prone surfed. They are too wide in width.
As an example, my 9'3" Parallax is 23 1/2" in width.
To sum up. I'm 5'8" and weigh 144 pounds.
My main complaint of prone surfing a SUP is you can't comfortably sit on the board in the line up.  You either have to lay down, or have both knees on the board and your bottom on heels. 
I would think the shorter you are, the more limited in width tolerance of a board.  I am 6'2" and am comfortable prone paddling a 28.5" wide board.  Your 9'3" Parallax is 78.8L giving you a guild factor of 1.2.  If you were in your 20s, this board could be your SUP.  Mo Freitas's SUP typically were the same width as his surfboards (i.e gun), ~ 23".  When our surf gets junky and windy, conditions where light weights would use a 8' wavestorm, I use a 7'6" x 28.5" 110L L41 S5 SUP that is a similar relative guild factor for me 1.17.  A 10' x 23" x 4.2" prone longboard on my wish list will be of similar volume.
When I got into SUP is when I found I had more fun prone paddling a 8'10" x 30" Blair SUP (gf=1.4) than on a 9' x 23" Stewart CMP (gf=0.7).  Volume is your friend.  Blair is an interesting shaper where he can shape for older & heavier guys, packing volume into boards that perform well.  I have a 8'8" x 25" ~85L (gf=0.9) Blair Quad step up that paddles like a longboard.  With my height, I have no problem with the 25" width.  He puts a SUP handle in the board to make it easy to carry.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 06:11:41 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 200#, 6'2"

Night Wing

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #168 on: May 24, 2023, 06:58:33 AM »
@ Badger

I've seen the wing foilers down at Quintana Beach and at Surfside Beach. They don't wing foil too close to the beach because I'm sure at some point, their wings have hit the unseen sandbars when the wind is up which turns the water in chocolate milk color. Once a foiler hits a sandbar the first time and the consequence of hitting that unseen sandbar, they know exactly where the sandbar is from then on. "Once burned, a lesson learned" moment.

I've also seen the wing foil videos for Quintana Beach and Surfside Beach. I can't wing foil because as you know, I have had both my right and left shoulder joints "surgically repaired".

One has to have "arm strength" to hold on to the bar to control the sail. If I tried to wing foil, on a good windy day where the wind speed is around 20 mph and gusting to near 27 mph, with my surgically repaired shoulders, I'm sure a gust of wind would come along and try to "yank the bar out of my hands on the bar".

I'm guessing the "yanking wind gust" would put lots of pressure on the scar tissue in both of my surgically repaired shoulder joints. The left shoulder joint was surgically repaired in 2002 and then my right shoulder joint was repaired in 2017.

The same surgeon did both of my shoulders. Since he knew I surfed, he told me to stick to longboard surfing which would be "easier on both of my repaired shoulders".

When I last saw my spinal surgeon in January of 2023, at that time I was 72 years old. He told me if I wanted to keep longboard surfing; since he himself surfed when he was younger and he knew my love for the water since I chose a procedure, if things went wrong which could have put me walking with crutches for a partially paralyzed right leg, or worse, being relegated to being in a wheel chair for the rest of my life because my right leg would have been totally paralyzed, to find a surfing pop-up which would be easy to do and put very little stress on my repaired spine.

My style of longboard surfing is what I call, "finesse surfing" or as the younger surfers call it, "boring". I like a long gliding ride of 200 yards where I stay out in front of the wave making slow lazy "S" shaped turns so the tail end of my longboard stays in touch with the wave.

All of my outdoor water activities, I play smart instead of hard. My way of longboard surfing  is best seen in this YouTube video from Flying Robot Movies. And since your now 66 years old, I think you could do this type of longboard surfing.

This video is best seen in 1080p HD (high definition) in full screen mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3bhDHLJAZA
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Night Wing

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #169 on: May 24, 2023, 07:42:28 AM »

A 10' x 23" x 4.2" prone longboard on my wish list will be of similar volume.

When you eventually get your longboard above, ask your shaper what fin, fin length and where to position the fin in the center fin box if you plan on using your board as a single fin setup.

If a single fin setup, take a look at a Donald Takayama "Halo" center in. They come in different lengths. If your board has multiple fin boxes, Halo fins also come in side bites and they also come in a set of quads.

The video below will explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNoM2f7x8YA

Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Night Wing

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #170 on: July 01, 2023, 07:46:04 AM »
Thought I would give an update on my Donald Takayama 10.5 Halo fin.

When I got my Halo fin, I searched all over the internet looking for a video where someone is actually surfing a Halo fin. I wanted to see if the video would show where to place the fin in the long center fin box. Finding a video was not easy.

But luck was with me. I found a video of a Japanese woman in Hawaii surfing her longboard with her Halo fin. She basically surfs in a straight line towards the beach where she keeps the tail end of her longboard in touch with the face of the wave.

My 9'3' Parallax single fin longboard is a very fast board and can easily out run a wave. So instead of stepping back on the tail end to lift the nose of my Parallax up thereby slowing my board down, then moving toward the middle of the board to pick up speed again, I do small "S" shape turns in a straight line to slow my board down so my board stays in touch with the face of the wave while still generating speed.

In the video where she enters the water to lay on her Walden "Magic" model longboard to paddle out to catch a wave, you can see the black colored Halo fin. But you cannot see where she placed the fin in her center fin box.

Near the end of the video, basically at the 6:08 time stamp where she is showering off at the public showers to clean off her board, she turns her board to head on back to her vehicle. At this point you can see the fin placement and it looked to me she placed the Halo fin about 2" down from the front of the center fin box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLV3U_eZt20

She doesn't do a lot of turning, just surfs in a straight line. Since my longboard is very fast and I like to surf in a straight line too, I wanted my board to feel just a little loose with my small "S" shaped turns. I decided to place my Halo fin 1 1/2" down from the front of the center fin box.

This fin placement was the "sweet spot" for my longboard. Since I'm 5'8" in height; tiny waves for me are knee high, small waves are waist high, medium waves are shoulder high and large waves are head high and above.

I've been down to Quintana Beach at different times to surf tiny, small and medium waves and I'm impressed with the 10.5 Halo fin. Since this fin is oversized, I have to surf this fin off the rails instead of placing my right foot to the left or right of the center line stringer which runs the length of the board in the middle of the board.

The Halo fin is faster than my 10.5 Parallax fin. But I must say, the fin placement on my 10.5 Parallax fin is right at the front of the center fin box where the 10.5 Halo fin is 1 1/12" down from the front of the center fin box.

I haven't had the chance to surf any of my three fins; 10.5 Parallax, 10.5 Involvement or 10.5 Halo in head high and above waves yet. Where I live, June 1st is the start of hurricane season for us and the season runs until November 1st.

Usually there will be a good tropical or hurricane which makes it into the Gulf of Mexico and eventually I'll get a chance to surf some head high waves. This usually occurs between Aug 15th and Sept 23rd so I'm looking forward to it.
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Subber

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #171 on: July 02, 2023, 09:59:00 AM »
Nice Update!

I have a few halo fins of different sizes - some "real" and some probably knockoffs. 

I got 10.5" for noseriding on my SUPs hoping it would be low paddle and low takeoff drag
and also work well for noseriding and top to bottom turning.   I think it is good for all of those areas.
If they had an 11" I'd probably get that one too for noseriding as my SUPs are pretty large, and
maybe a bit more area would make it more solid top to bottom (I need to test again - lol).

I typically have it all the way back in the box for noseriding. 
I note if I'm not lined up with the wave energy the board can Yaw on takeoff I suppose because of the low amount of area.
After I concentrated on avoiding that it (the third session) it became a non-issue.

Also, it has that straight leaning back front edge (good in kelp!) - If I'm far back on the board for turning it can do a wicked
pivot turn (sometimes an overturn) - actually pretty fun, but I've had a couple radical spinouts - lol.  Standing not so far back equals not as much of a pivot.  So, I probably don't turn from as far back anymore with this fin. 

I've heard/read he designed it so that you can steer from further forward on the board - I think true and if you are there, no pivot - so that is where you want to be for top to bottom surfing.  I note my Takayama 11 footer has been difficult to steer from way up front with other fins - I need to try
this fin in that board to see if it gives better steering for longer noserides.   

I've had it out in big spilling waves on my Black and Blue noserider and it worked great - phew (although not remembering
how much top to bottom surfing I was doing).
When noseriding it normally holds in but I've also had some slipslidy noserides where the tail is sliding along
with the rest of the board - kind of controlled sideslipping, probably partly because my large boards are pretty floaty
and the fin has a narrow profile and low area.

On my Pearson Laird I use it as either a single or with small sidebites - surfs well but the whole setup is draggier paddling and taking off with the
sidies - 4" Takayama Halos.
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375x28.5x17.25x 4.25, 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Night Wing

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Re: Surfboards (Longboards)
« Reply #172 on: July 02, 2023, 10:46:04 AM »
But I must say, the fin placement on my 10.5 Parallax fin is right at the front of the center fin box where the 10.5 Halo fin is 1 1/12" down from the front of the center fin box.

I hate it when I make typos. >:(  I didn't catch the typo yesterday when I made the post.

The 10.5 Halo fin placement in the sentence above is wrong. It is not 1/12". It is 1 1/2" down from the front of the center fin box. It was correct the first time I mentioned how far down from the front of the center fin box further above in that post.

I also forgot to mention I can steer/turn my 9'3" longboard from the center of my board with the 10.5 Halo fin. Unconventional design in longboard center fins, but it works.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 10:48:39 AM by Night Wing »
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

 


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