Author Topic: Ensis Wings  (Read 21202 times)

cnski

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2020, 03:22:16 AM »
I own all the BRM Cloud wings, sizes 2-6M.

In the past I've owned slingshot v1, duotone v1, ozone, f-one, Naish v2. I've tested friends' Armstrong wings.

I like the Cloud wings the best based on their lightness, power, rigidity, handles and narrow width (to avoid burying the wingtips). The 5 and 6M leaving edges are huge but they seem to provide great grunt in light wind.

I should be able to test an Ensis next week and report back with a comparison!

NewEnglandFoiler- Where in NE do you wing?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2020, 05:54:23 AM »
The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.

My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.

I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.

The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:58:00 AM by Dwight (DW) »

VB_Foil

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2020, 07:12:42 AM »
The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.

My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.

I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.

The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.

Have you seen Jeffrey Spencer busting backflips holding Slingshot's delta shaped dihedral wing?  That thing looks super stable somehow.  Probably not efficient, but who needs efficiency with Maui's nuking winds. 
Im a 59 65kg rider:

Boards:
   3'11" 25L Armstrong
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   410 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   511 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 800, 850, 1050, HA1125, 1850, 2400
Wings: BRM 2M-6M

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2020, 08:20:15 AM »
Have you seen Jeffrey Spencer busting backflips holding Slingshot's delta shaped dihedral wing?  That thing looks super stable somehow.

Lots of dihedral wind wings are super stable, until they are not. They have moments.

The Ensis has never had a moment. Nuking crazy wind, and it still acts like its taking a dirt nap.


NewEnglandFoiler

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2020, 08:51:33 AM »
I own all the BRM Cloud wings, sizes 2-6M.

In the past I've owned slingshot v1, duotone v1, ozone, f-one, Naish v2. I've tested friends' Armstrong wings.

I like the Cloud wings the best based on their lightness, power, rigidity, handles and narrow width (to avoid burying the wingtips). The 5 and 6M leaving edges are huge but they seem to provide great grunt in light wind.

I should be able to test an Ensis next week and report back with a comparison!

NewEnglandFoiler- Where in NE do you wing?

I mostly SUP and wing eastern Massachusetts including Nahant, Pleasure Bay, Duxbury, Horseneck, Nantucket and occasionally Rye NH and Rhode Island (Point Judith area).

deja vu

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2020, 01:12:28 PM »
The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.

My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.

I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.

The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.

Have you seen Jeffrey Spencer busting backflips holding Slingshot's delta shaped dihedral wing?  That thing looks super stable somehow.  Probably not efficient, but who needs efficiency with Maui's nuking winds.

There are some images of the Slingshot "Dart" linked below:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,36555.0.html
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:14:59 PM by deja vu »

Beasho

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2020, 05:03:56 PM »
The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.

My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.

I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.

The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.

This is possible.  Dihedral is supposed to be stable in Roll.  But it can cause adverse yaw effects which you may be experiencing and figuring out. 

PonoBill

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2020, 08:17:16 PM »
Dihedral provides stability by increasing lift on the low wing when a wing is tilted relative to the center of gravity. Lovely when you're flying level. How often does that happen with a foil wing? Never would be a good guess. Still, in many cases it makes the wing more stable, but if the righting movement shifts the center of gravity (which it does often with a foil wing) the righting effect changes and even reverses, so the wing hunts.

To see an example, hold the wing over your head and hang your weight steadily down--the wing is stable. Now tilt it a tiny bit and don't put as much weight on it. If the dihedral is working as it should it will wobble all over the place, "correcting" for CG that is constantly shifting as the wing wobbles.

The common fix is a little washout in the wingtips. Washout makes the wing stall at the root of the wing before the wingtips by reducing the incidence angle of the wingtip relative to the root but also stabilizes the wing as it wobbles around by reducing lift of the lower wingtip. But there is no complete cure, any time the CG can move around the dihedral will try to correct.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2020, 12:42:59 AM »
The really impressive thing about this wing is how freaking stable it looks in every video.  Most of the time it looks like a solid structure.  Very impressed by that.  Sizes are great too.  4.5, 3.5, 2.5 quiver.  Hmmm

Anyone have a link to that original video of that guy in Kahului harbor? 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 12:53:20 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #69 on: November 25, 2020, 03:57:18 AM »
I opened the zipper and felt around the mystery stitch on the leading edge. There really is a second layer of Dacron in the center area of the leading edge. It extents to the mystery stitch. About 4 feet each side of center.

That has to part of the magic. A not fat leading edge, yet the most rigid, non distorting, wind wing Ive ever flown.

I think we need a 1.9m

Im in love with the Liquid Force fill valve. It fills so fast, with no back pressure. Deflates and rolls up with no resistance.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 04:03:41 AM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #70 on: November 25, 2020, 12:04:39 PM »
That will certainly help. All these wings flex a lot which changes the aero aspects dynamically. In a lot of ways, it's remarkable that they are as stable as they currently are.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jondrums

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2020, 03:06:27 PM »
dwight - are you saying the ensis wings use the liquid force valve?  or is that an aside about a different wing?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2020, 04:23:18 PM »
yes, they use the LF valve. It has Liquid Force logo on it.

obxDave

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2020, 07:33:21 PM »
Ive pretty much ridden two wings (Duotone V1 and Echo), two foils (Gong Pro XL and Gong Veloce XL), and two boards (Blue Planet 58 Carver and FSM 51 90L)  from day one, minus a quick test of handles (Naish S25) and Moses foils (1100 and 790). Thats it for 14 months.

A tip of the hat to the gear testers. Man that must get pricey :).  Then again I just bought a travel trailer to spend a chunk of my retirement roaming around to different US  coastal sailing spots. Its all good!

(Other than less than perfect one handed luffing stability, Ive never had an issue with the Echo dihedral stability in general. Rolls nice and fast for those challenging upwind transitions)

deja vu

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Re: Ensis Wings
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2020, 08:52:58 AM »

A tip of the hat to the gear testers. Man that must get pricey :)

Being an equipment junkie is lots of fun if you have the financial wherewithal.  The upside is that you get to try out and play with lots of new toys.  You also get to give your feedback -- which is taken seriously since you have the background to make up-to-date comparisons to other products you have owned.

The downside is that you run the risk of replacing equipment with the latest and greatest only to later conclude that you preferred some of the replaced equipment -- that's the risk but if you can afford it then who cares!

 


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