Author Topic: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?  (Read 3146 times)

clay

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2020, 06:01:11 PM »
I want to acknowledge that in my opinion everyone on the zone is smart as F, free thinkers, dancing to the beat of their own drum kinda folks.   I mean this as a compliment.

The bay area was one of the first counties to lockdown, and now leading the charge to force everyone to wear masks.

For me this is the last straw.  I  tried wearing a mask last week while grocery shopping and hated every second it.  This week I went to buy groceries and tried lying saying i had a medical condition. I got hassled 3 times by store employees for not wearing a mask, once a fellow shopper snitched on me.  Most of the shoppers either gave me fearful looks or avoided me like the plague.  A miserable experience.

I now have a Guy Fawkes mask.  In my opinion the masks are useless, unless the goal is to spread fear and remind people who's in charge.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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DavidJohn

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2020, 06:24:33 PM »
I agree that wearing a masks sucks..

After 22 years of working in an ICU and often working with TB type patients it only takes about 20 minutes before I cant wait to rip the bloody thing off.

Here in Oz they are now recommending that people dont wear masks out in the public because its often doing more harm than good.. They are being worn for too long and are often poor quality.

PonoBill

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2020, 08:01:33 PM »
The CDC waffled on the entire mask thing for quite a while, mostly because with good masks in short supply they wanted to save them for medical professionals, but a secondary reason is that people don't know how to wear them, and given that no one follows directions, wearing a mask can do more harm than good. For one thing they give people a false sense of security. Second, people take them on and off with no notion that they need to be concerned that the mask could well be covered with contaminants. I commented on a facebook post where people were making fun of folks wearing masks while they were driving. I said if you put a mask on, leave it on until you no longer need it--don't take it on and off every time you get in the car. Of course, folks acted like I was pissing in their soup, but the protocol for anti-contamination clothing and PPE is pretty much identical, and I've spent years in anti-C gear, which make wearing PPE look like a walk in the park. Wear a full-on N100 double filter full face mask, hood, double gloves, full coveralls, double shoe covers, sleeves and gaiters while you're working for eight hours and then tell me how irritating a little nose and mouth mask is.

Yeah, I know, poor me.

Anyway, I'd suggest that everyone figure out how you are going to handle increased exposure, since relaxing restrictions now seems inevitable, and there simply isn't any way we've developed enough herd immunity to mitigate how many infected people you can come in contact with. We don't have just a few loci of infection to deal with--it's pretty much everywhere. If you're young, with no comorbidities, fit, and not obese or otherwise compromised then the odds of the gamble are not all that bad. If you're old, fat, and bald like me (maybe the bald part doesn't hurt) then have a plan for how to wait out the first few weeks and see how things go.
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surfinJ

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2020, 11:56:28 PM »
The wearing of the mask is to protect the other person from your possible infection. You have not been tested for antibodies and may be a carrier.
You can have no symptoms, feel fine and spread. This is the primary reason for public mas use.

I would not call not wanting to wear a mask free thinking.  You basically do not give a crap about those around you.

This is simply selfish behavior.  Not some narsistic ideal of being a free thinker.

We are trully a strange form of animal species.

Admin

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2020, 05:58:37 AM »
My real interest is Fall/Winter 20/21.  It is a likelihood that this will be back.  We have no idea if a vaccine will be ready or effective (or if one will be possible at all).  We don't know much about immunity yet and we do not know if immunity from round one would protect from a potential round two. 

Everyone has a view on the adminstration's (and local govt's) handling of this and is going through the mental exercise of what would I have done differently but how much planning is truly occurring in industry?  I know that in our industry (snowsports) there has been a lot wound licking, a lot of status quo review but no evidence of a plan for operating with this virus in full effect next winter.  Head in the sand behavior. 

My big question is: How much of this could have been avoided with intense distancing through awareness, behavior and physical protection?  I am not suggesting that anyone should have had this foresight 4 months ago.  We have it now.  What do we do with it?

As an example, I would like to see the snowsports industry communicating (right now) what every aspect of resort activity would look like in the fall/winter in the event of outbreak.  Parking, shuttles, ticketing, lift lines, restaurants, rentals, every detail of the experience.  A comprehensive "we've got this".  A notice both to the public and to the politicians that we are ready to accommodate and regulate safe use during a pandemic event. 

A 70 % resort closure in March is one thing, if it looks like that will be the case in Nov/Dec that would be an entirely different scenario.  That would upend the cart for many businesses. 

Quickbeam

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2020, 08:27:05 AM »
The wearing of the mask is to protect the other person from your possible infection. You have not been tested for antibodies and may be a carrier.
You can have no symptoms, feel fine and spread. This is the primary reason for public mas use.

I would not call not wanting to wear a mask free thinking.  You basically do not give a crap about those around you.

This is simply selfish behavior.  Not some narsistic ideal of being a free thinker.

We are trully a strange form of animal species.


Excellent post. This is dead on. Its about protecting others.

To say being asked to wear a mask is the last straw for me, as one poster said above, just shows how self centered and selfish some can be. I dont give a shit about you as long as Im O.K.

My father and my grandfather fought in world wars and went through a major depression. We are being asked to wear a mask. And thats the last straw?

Wholly fuck, what have we become?
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Thatspec

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2020, 08:32:02 AM »
...people don't know how to wear them, and given that no one follows directions, wearing a mask can do more harm than good. For one thing they give people a false sense of security. Second, people take them on and off with no notion that they need to be concerned that the mask could well be covered with contaminants.

... And what's passing as a mask in places that should know better is surprising. Was in our small rural hospital twice in past week, you're greeted at the door by an attendant that takes your temp, asks if you have any symptoms, and gives you the cheapest, flimsiest excuse for a mask I've ever seen.

The blow by on the thing in and out must be in the 75% range no matter how you wear it. Guess it probably catches much of a cough or sneeze though and is better than nothing.

All I have at home are 3M N95 particulate masks with a flapper valve for the exhale. Doesn't do much to protect everyone else...

littleray

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2020, 08:44:20 AM »
The wearing of the mask is to protect the other person from your possible infection. You have not been tested for antibodies and may be a carrier.
You can have no symptoms, feel fine and spread. This is the primary reason for public mas use.

I would not call not wanting to wear a mask free thinking.  You basically do not give a crap about those around you.

This is simply selfish behavior.  Not some narsistic ideal of being a free thinker.

We are trully a strange form of animal species.


Excellent post. This is dead on. Its about protecting others.

To say being asked to wear a mask is the last straw for me, as one poster said above, just shows how self centered and selfish some can be. I dont give a shit about you as long as Im O.K.

My father and my grandfather fought in world wars and went through a major depression. We are being asked to wear a mask. And thats the last straw?

Wholly fuck, what have we become?
"shows how self centered and selfish some can be"......HELLO!!....this being a standup surf/surf forum would you expect anything less? Any break,any lineup,anywhere.....

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2020, 12:05:38 PM »
Beach parking returns and people lose their shit. Never seen this many people on the beach, ever!



So I just went out to gas up the van for tomorrows run to the EPS plant. Drove by Kelly Park. The boat ramp parking had overflown to 3 times its capacity. Trailers had filled the vacant field next to it. A field the size of a football field.

Partial reopening of public places is making it worse. Maybe all public outdoor areas need to open at the same time to reduce crowding.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 12:41:24 PM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2020, 07:12:08 PM »
Yup, that's the next wave right there, and it's going to be ten times worse. Looking at that picture you can assume that five percent is shedding virus. the infection rates, ICU saturation, and deaths we see today are from infections caught from early to mid-April when people were on their best behaviour. My simple advice is if you see a crowd, go the other way. That's Darwin's waiting room right there.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 07:18:07 PM by PonoBill »
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PonoBill

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2020, 07:13:38 PM »
And yes, Clay I won't yell at you, but stay safe. We need you and your unending enthusiasm. Love you brother. That goes for all of you, even Rider. Strange though it may seem in an online community we've formed a bond that goes on. I wish you all well.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 07:16:43 PM by PonoBill »
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surf4food

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2020, 07:26:40 PM »
Interesting about the masks. I have no issue wearing them at the grocery store.  I mean we're only talking about half an our at the most.  Plus I wear them most of the day at my job and yeah that get's annoying but it could be worse.

PonoBill

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2020, 07:44:40 PM »
Yeah, easy for me too. I have about ten serious masks, all of them N100 or P100, and I have a supplied-air mask for the really nasty shit. I forget I have them on and go home or to lunch with a mask sometimes. It's all what you get used to. Like standing up on a foil. To someone watching you do it, it seems impossible, but once you're used to it, it's no big deal--except you're FLYING!
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SUP Leave

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2020, 08:54:09 AM »
The opening of one beach and not another is counter productive. Human behavior has not and will not change.

I fully support that if a business or government office wants to require masks for entry they should be able to do it. Outside of that it can only be a recommendation.

I would not cast aspersions on anyone wearing a mask, or anyone not wearing one. Some people are claustrophobic and freak out when they put one on - simple as that. The messaging from the CDC and local governments has been poor and very uneven about their use and while the science is simple, the way many people wear or use the mask negates the use of them. I was in the Home Depot wait line and the guy 2 'spots' up had the mask above his mouth so he could smoke a cigarette below it. Is that guy creating a better health outcome than me (with no mask)? I wish I could have snuck a picture of it.

This virtue signalling bullshit of calling someone 'selfish' when they go to the beach or have their bare face out is getting pretty old - a lazy narrative. We don't know anything about these people, why they are taking their actions, or if they are selfish or not. Maybe they have read the umpteen articles about outdoor spread of CV, maybe they believe that they have to protect themselves by cultivating a stronger immune system, maybe their family is at the breaking point and a trip to the beach will help everyone chill out, maybe they are ignorant, or maybe they really hate old people (per social media). The response to the pandemic has exacerbated the "othering" in our society more than bring us together.

My opinion is that from a health perspective, most of the country should be opening up in some form ASAP. Let the areas with available hospital capacity provide data points based on their openings. Currently hospitals are prepared for CV-19, now is the time to see what happens with opening the areas near them. Pushing the 2nd wave further into the future, or further pushing down the curve into the fall would be irresponsible. Not economically, but from public health perspective. We should be making ourselves stronger and more resilient to disease, as fast as we can.
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clay

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Re: Should we really wait for "them" to figure this out?
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2020, 10:20:54 AM »
And yes, Clay I won't yell at you, but stay safe. We need you and your unending enthusiasm. Love you brother. That goes for all of you, even Rider. Strange though it may seem in an online community we've formed a bond that goes on. I wish you all well.

Thanks Bill!  Love you too.  Appreciate the good words.  I've been yelled at most of my life and I always appreciate when people use a softer approach.

Hope we all get wet and gather around a fire soon.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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