Upwind on foil

[Solent Foiler]

Sorry Phils - slightly hijacked thread. You and WingDingJoe asked for help getting upwind...

Joe asked about mast position and getting upwind and if experimenting then forward should be better than back, all else being equal.

[Dwight (DW)]

I get that people can go upwind, no problem, with some experience.

The problem is you’re a kite foiler and know what is possible with a kite foil, others have no friggin clue and think they are going upwind. Haha.

[obxDave]

Not much that i could add other than

1 take full advantage of the gusts (sheet, lean, point) and definitely back off in the lulls. Pretty standard for most wind powered thingy’s. Even if I’m seriously overpowered I still tweak how much I sheet in depending on wind speed. Always glancing over my shoulder to anticipate gusts and lulls

2 Getting upwind toeside is never as good. The faster you learn riding either foot forward, the better your upwind progress on both tacks.

(I can lean a bit winging to help drive upwind but it’s nothing compared to locking a kite low in the wind window with the windward board rail just off the water surface and the leeward foil tip almost breaking the water surface. With kitefoiling you can seriously lean and drive upwind so hard and fast it’s scary)

[Phils]

Thanks everyone for your comments.  I have 20 MPH today, time to start working on riding with weak foot forward.

[wingdingjoe]

Also want to thank all for their observations and advice. I thought maybe i might have been focusing on keeping the board FLAT (old Wingsurf habit) so on the last outing i really actually TRIED to lean the whole rig windward... Not much change really. Also, the mast is only 60cm so maybe if it was 75 if have more leeway for leaning..?

For sure Bill Nailed it that the Swing.. At least the 6mt,does "backwind" quite early... Many times i find myself actually PUSHING forward with my front hand to keep the LE area from fluttering. Would this be a function of the LE DIAMETER more than the camber?

Anyway... Have to also admit that the exact area where I've most been able tu practice does have a notable current going same direction as the wind... And it's very blowing southeast the entire month... The two days i could actually go wing in another location without this "venturi" effect between reef and sandy point... I had an easier time getting upwind.

[PonoBill]

Thanks to Admin's prodding I found my current low limit for wind with the 6M--something like 10-12MPH. I could barely get up on the foil in the gusts, but once I was up only a very long lull brought the foil back down, and I made the cleanest jibe I've ever done. Now if I could only remember what I did.

The reason for posting here is that I was able to go upwind remarkably well at the low limit for the 6M wing. For anyone familiar with Hood River, I made it from the Hook to the far end of the hatchery in three reaches, and the port reach gained minimal ground given the bit of south in the wind. Of course, as soon as I got that far downriver the wind died, and I got to wing slowly downwind for what felt like ten miles but is actually a little over a half-mile.

That reveals one more great thing about wings. Even if the wind poops out there's generally enough to kneel or stand on your board and slowly make you way back. If that had been a windsurfer or a kite it would have been a very long afternoon. There was enough remaining wind so that the best of the windfoilers with big enough sails were still up and foiling, and the lone kitefoiler was still going anywhere he wanted to go, but anyone without full-on zen wind skills would be doing some form of the walk of shame. But a faker like me just putted back, cursing all the way.

[Beasho]

Thanks to Admin's prodding I found my current low limit for wind with the 6M--something like 10-12MPH. I could barely get up on the foil in the gusts, but once I was up only a very long lull brought the foil back down, ...
 There was enough remaining wind so that the best of the windfoilers with big enough sails were still up and foiling, and the lone kitefoiler was still going anywhere he wanted to go, but anyone without full-on zen wind skills would be doing some form of the walk of shame. But a faker like me just putted back, cursing all the way.

This is great to hear!  Keep the stories coming.

[Admin]

That was a great time but that is fully powered 6 meter conditions for me (those two bug lulls excluded).  With the current over 200 I have been trying to run downwind on both reaches just to stay ahead of the lulls.  Toeside is still fighting me but I actually felt in control for about 3 seconds and got off a few feeble pumps.  I have no idea why my body is fighting weighting the upwind rail so much. 

[clay]

Right on!  Fun to hear the stoke, and can relate to the frustration.

I had a breakthrough on the 6m yesterday upwind with a harness.   Wind was mostly low teens, with maybe an occasional gust to upper teens. 

Hooked in to the harness I was able to go upwind at my steepest angle so far heelside, and then jibe and ride the windswell toeside side-downwind, jibe and repeat.

In other light wind sessions I grew bored quickly.  Yesterday the outer waters had strong winds and therefore fun size bumps were still rolling in.  I was able to play with luffing the big 6m and foil the bumps unpowered.  Super fun!  I am so stoked to do this in nuking winds with a small kite!

[PonoBill]

Perhaps the substantial current had something to do with my excellent upwind (downcurrent) skills. Today looks very interesting. Some spots are 10 gusting to 45. So, ummm, no. Shop projects are calling me.

[cnski]

Bill- What size board are you currently riding? Dimensions and volume?

[Admin]

Perhaps the substantial current had something to do with my excellent upwind (downcurrent) skills.

Nah!  You are maching upwind, even with no current.  The underwater turbulence has been pretty wild, though.  Like hitting little lift pockets.  That adds another level of intensity.

[PonoBill]

Bill- What size board are you currently riding? Dimensions and volume?

Flying Dutchperson, 6'6 X 32". Yeah, it's a little too big, but it's fine.

[lieutenantglorp]

I agree on all the tips provided and wanted to add the significant advantage of a harness line simply because it transfers the majority of the pull lower and closer to your center of gravity so you can essentially sit back more.  Same goes without a harness line though,  the more you can sit back and hang your weight from the wing and the more tension you can put between you and the wing, the more that force can be converted to pointing higher with more speed at the expense of your arm longevity 

[surfwingsteve]

Can someone post a good third person video of a strong upwind run?  That would help us analyze body and wing position.  Maybe there is something you guys flying upwind are doing that you are not realizing?  I know when I get up onto the foil I can cut upwind fairly well, but I am still at that phase of foiling where I ride upwind for 50m-fall off-get back onto the board-lose 60m-repeat-do football field walk or swim of shame at the end of the day.