Author Topic: wobble feeling  (Read 1748 times)

VB_Foil

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2020, 02:11:33 PM »
I take my 72CM and 85CM Armstrong Mast w/ giant 2400cm wing out winging in my local spot that has a stretch with 1-2' windswell chop running into the river shoreline bulkhead then rebounding back out.  A complete mess.

I do not notice any negative 'flexing' from the Armstrong Mast.  I can stand on DW's small board when off foil without much issue. 

I think Armstrong's 'reactive' flex is something that more experienced riders enjoy, similar to a snowboard with strong camber and good sidecut.  Not great for a beginner trying to go straight, as they can't drive the snowboard yet.  The board can get kicked around without rider input and a beginner might fault the board. 

While I do think I may feel a small amount of movement of the wing, It is nothing like a uniform aluminum mast flex.   At one point back in the day I ordered a carbon fiber mast from some Ukrainian startup to replace my Cloud IX  aluminum mast.  Now that was a complete noodle!  It was so loose it failed the first session! 

Comparing Armstrong's mast to a thin aluminum mast is like comparing a cheap pair of plastic FCS fins to the premium blackstix with sophisticated flex pattern.  Both flex, but not at all equally. 

I would love to hear input from an experienced rider who's been on both Axis and Armstrong for input. 
Im a 59 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   410 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   511 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 1050, 1200, 1550, 2400
Wings: F-One Swing 3.5M and 5M

jondrums

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2020, 02:39:01 PM »
I would love to hear input from an experienced rider who's been on both Axis and Armstrong for input.

totally agreed - sounds like people are fine with Armstrong's mast, but have they ridden a 19mm axis aluminum?  Before I had a stiff mast, I didn't think much of the mast I had.  Once I did, I couldn't go back. 

clay

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2020, 05:43:07 PM »
My experience is that wobble or high frequency movement / flex is often something loose, like bolts not tight enough, and it sucks/hard to control.  I've also felt wobble when the tracks were failing or had failed.

I'm surprised to hear people say they like a really stiff mast, I much prefer some flex.  The way I make sense of this is like bird wings and fish fins all move or flex.

I have tried carbon masts that are much stiffer than the original gofoil and I prefer a well made aluminum mast. 

Reminds of Surftech boards that were super stiff and dead feeling, they would skip out or wouldn't bend to match the curves in the wave face.

I understand the precision direction control that comes from a stiff mast, I prefer a mast that moves and goes with the flow of the wave energy.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 05:47:11 PM by clay »
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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PonoBill

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2020, 07:52:37 PM »
My progression has been:

1. Old GoFoil 24" mast--felt fine, all these problems are just me.

2. GoFoil 29" mast. OMG, this is so much better. Maybe some of those problems were the mast. No worries, I'm not going back. I am a golden god of foiling.

3. Axis without shimming. Wow, this is great. Still having some issues, but they must be me. I am a silver god of foil.

4. Axis with shimming. Wow, so much better. All these issues are me. I am a kook of foiling.

Conclusion--the better your gear is, the more you suck.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2020, 06:52:45 AM »
My buddy rode the Axis carbon. He said forget about it. Too much flex and twist. Hes staying on aluminum.

I can't comment for SUP but for winging we are really happy with the Axis 760 carbon masts.  There is a noticeable drag reduction.  It is an incredible feeling.  I am not sensing any additional flex or twist but if it is there it is very pleasant :)

One thing that will be an issue (and is easily overlooked) is the offset.  The carbon mast moves the foil assembly back considerably.  It is not readily apparent just from eyeballing it.  If you use your screw position for matching to your track marks the foils will be moved back by just over an inch.  If you use the front of the plate  for matching to your track marks the foils will be moved back by over an inch and quarter.  So you will have to adjust the mast forward to get the same foil position.  If you don't catch that it can make for a very funky session, especially if you have your straps just where you like them :).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 08:30:26 AM by Admin »

DavidJohn

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2020, 01:47:46 PM »
Naish have a wider, stiffer and lighter mast coming soon.
I have put an order in for the 85.

liv2surf

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2020, 11:42:18 AM »
You can probably figure this out on land by pushing on foil and seeing where the movement is.

Good suggestion. This was easy with board deck down, foil up, me pulling on the wings. The mast flex was super obvious. I was stunned by this. No bueno.
9'6" CRUZ Surf SUP (152L)
6'6" CRUZ 'CIM' Foil SUP (130L)
9'5" Naish Mana (165L; broken)
8'8" F'One Madeiro Pro (145L; sold)
Chinook Thrust 92 fixed-length paddle
Half Moon Bay, CA

Dwight (DW)

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2020, 01:11:43 PM »
My buddy rode the Axis carbon. He said forget about it. Too much flex and twist. Hes staying on aluminum.

I can't comment for SUP but for winging we are really happy with the Axis 760 carbon masts.  There is a noticeable drag reduction.  It is an incredible feeling.  I am not sensing any additional flex or twist but if it is there it is very pleasant :)

One thing that will be an issue (and is easily overlooked) is the offset.  The carbon mast moves the foil assembly back considerably.  It is not readily apparent just from eyeballing it.  If you use your screw position for matching to your track marks the foils will be moved back by just over an inch.  If you use the front of the plate  for matching to your track marks the foils will be moved back by over an inch and quarter.  So you will have to adjust the mast forward to get the same foil position.  If you don't catch that it can make for a very funky session, especially if you have your straps just where you like them :).

Is the aluminum mast square on the ends? Ive seen some not square. By that much.

Admin

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2020, 01:30:17 PM »
Hi Dwight,

Yup, they are square.  I added the vertical lines to this Axis photo to show what I mean.  The lines are from the screw holes on each of the 3 plates.  It is no problem to adjust for this offset once you know that it is there but it did throw me a bit when I put my straps back on.  It is over 1.25 inches offset difference between our aluminium and carbon setups.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 01:43:28 PM by Admin »

soepkip

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2020, 12:34:58 AM »
I added the vertical lines to this Axis photo to show what I mean.  The lines are from the screw holes on each of the 3 plates.  It is no problem to adjust for this offset once you know that it is there but it did throw me a bit when I put my straps back on.  It is over 1.25 inches offset difference between our aluminium and carbon setups.

Unfortunately it can be a problem , when the waves are slow and small I have to put my Axis alu mast all the way in front in the tracks of my Jimmy Lewis Flying V 5'11  I use a front foot strap and it took me some time to find the right mast and footstrap position...

On my custom 6'6 I have my mast all the way in the back of the tracks, and I have the feeling it is still to much forward, the board doesn't paddle as straight as I would like and I cannot move the front foot strap more to the front because I  tend to push the nose of the board underwater when I try to catch a wave.

The Axis plate has extra holes and I am planning to use them, I already made them a little bigger so that M8 will fit.

I will get my 76 cm carbon mast next week, when I look at your photo Admin it won't be possible to move it as much to the front as an alu mast but perhaps it will be possible to move it even further back than the alu mast....

But there might be some distortion in this photo....,

Admin

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Re: wobble feeling
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2020, 02:03:37 AM »
I added the vertical lines to this Axis photo to show what I mean.  The lines are from the screw holes on each of the 3 plates.  It is no problem to adjust for this offset once you know that it is there but it did throw me a bit when I put my straps back on.  It is over 1.25 inches offset difference between our aluminium and carbon setups.

Unfortunately it can be a problem , when the waves are slow and small I have to put my Axis alu mast all the way in front in the tracks of my Jimmy Lewis Flying V 5'11  I use a front foot strap and it took me some time to find the right mast and footstrap position...

On my custom 6'6 I have my mast all the way in the back of the tracks, and I have the feeling it is still to much forward, the board doesn't paddle as straight as I would like and I cannot move the front foot strap more to the front because I  tend to push the nose of the board underwater when I try to catch a wave.

The Axis plate has extra holes and I am planning to use them, I already made them a little bigger so that M8 will fit.

I will get my 76 cm carbon mast next week, when I look at your photo Admin it won't be possible to move it as much to the front as an alu mast but perhaps it will be possible to move it even further back than the alu mast....

But there might be some distortion in this photo....,

Hi Soekip,

I think you have it right.  If you are maxed out forward in the tracks with the aluminum mast then your fuselage is going to be set a little over an inch back of there with the carbon mast.  On the upside, you will gain that same measurement at the back of tracks.