Author Topic: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL  (Read 1084 times)

Wetstuff

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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 12:41:20 PM »
...some nuggets here.


https://www.realwatersports.com/blogs/news/tech-tips-for-beginner-wing-surfers


Jim

Not applicable to you Jim. I know what foil you own.

Matt rides the Armstrong with a ridiculously tiny tail fin compared to normal (to other brands). Tiny tail fins do one thing well....reduce drag. But at the expense of balancing the forces as normal  to what is typical in the SUP foiling world, of which Matt is not a part of. He’s a proner.

In SUP, beginners and even experienced guys, want first and foremost, tons of lift for those big boards. They can be a bitch to get flying compared to a prone board.

GoFoils and Axis setups, balance out alike, between the front and rear feet. This is the balance I prefer and always seek when choosing a rear wing, regardless of drag.

When you go tiny on the tail wing, you absolutely have to push the foil forward in the tracks, because the rear wing ain’t doing shit. Your rear legs need to do more and they will burn out if you don’t slide the foil forward. This is a what’s driving Matt’s setup.

Forget everything you read there. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 12:43:00 PM by Dwight (DW) »

Wetstuff

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2020, 05:51:30 AM »
"Forget everything you read there."   Ka-boom!  ..that's heavy Dwight.  Whooh... 

I feel like I am taking an astrophysics class before passing Geometry-1 ...and, I haven't even got wet yet year this year! Fricking-A.

Jim
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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2020, 07:30:48 AM »
It seems like for each rider there is a pretty broad range of tail wings that work well for a front wing.  Within that range you can really fine tune the overall setup with various tail sizes.  It is a pretty powerful (and relatively inexpensive) adjustment.  The advice in that vid is very general.  Mast all the way forward in the tracks may work perfectly for some board and foil setups but may be awful for others.  Getting this stuff wrong can really effect how you do early on. 

That vid convinced me of another thing.  You can (and will) get exactly opposite advice on almost any wingfoiling topic.  :)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 07:33:23 AM by Admin »

VB_Foil

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2020, 07:33:42 AM »
I learned on DWs SUP and I ride Armstrong foils, specifically the 2400 and I had to push it all the way to the rear of the tracks when learning. 

I think besides trying to recommend track position, without taking into account foil, board, rider weight, there is some good info in the video.  Especially regarding waiting on gusts to try to get on foil and not wasting energy. 
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   4’10” 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   5’11” 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 1050, 1200, 1550, 2400
Wings: F-One Swing 3.5M and 5M

Solent Foiler

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2020, 07:52:55 AM »
My take on the advice (as I have a moment, for what it's worth!):

1) mast position far forwards - mine's all the way forward already, but makes sense if you want to maximise lift (with DW's caveat of the law of unintended consequences)

2) use the biggest foil you can - I learnt on a 1650, and have never really struggled to get foiling. I am light, but on a big, long board - I didn't need a max size foil, and really enjoy the 1650 still.

3) non straps vs straps and strap positions - I've gone in between and have a front strap only. The front strap is a requirement for pumping, for me. The back, not so much! Haven't moved the front strap from normal foiling position.

4) start pumping the wing slowly - yes, fully agree with that...
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Naish Hover Crossover 120
Gong Catch 5'3"
on Naish foils (1250 & 1650).
Gong Plus wings - 4m, 5m

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2020, 08:17:11 AM »
I learned on DWs SUP and I ride Armstrong foils, specifically the 2400 and I had to push it all the way to the rear of the tracks when learning. 

So glad you posted that!

Jim, VB_Foil is like 150 lbs, if I remember correctly, riding a 2400 sq cm wing meant for 230 lb guys. So moving it way back is needed to get nose weight and leverage over that HUGE foil at his weight.

You see how silly Matt was to make those statements as fact  ;D

My tracks are in the right spot for most people. Use the center of the track, as designed, then outliers adjust as needed forward or back. Avoid Tuttle’s like the plague
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 08:20:44 AM by Dwight (DW) »

obxDave

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2020, 10:37:57 AM »
My tracks are in the right spot for most people. Use the center of the track, as designed, then outliers adjust as needed forward or back. Avoid Tuttle’s like the plague

Exactly how it works for me. I like to mount my Gong XL pro dead center on Dwight’s board (did the same when I used it on the Blues Planet Carver board). I like to mount the Moses 1100 more towards the rear.  No science, just trial and error

Speaking of Real WS and beginner tips; I know that they were really going to push winging lessons this year, in addition to kiteboarding/kitefoiling.  They have pretty decent water depth behind the center although I’m not sure how grassy it gets there during the summer months (a big issue for soundside foiling in the OuterBanks from late spring through fall), and Real only allows guests at the Condo’s or lesson students to launch from their location.  With the Covid travel ban here likely going till the end of May at best, I guess internet sales are their main income source for awhile. They usually have a pretty big gaggle of instructors there by now, with the condo’s filled and the restaurant busy as ever. Completely empty right now.........

VB_Foil

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2020, 05:57:23 PM »
I learned on DWs SUP and I ride Armstrong foils, specifically the 2400 and I had to push it all the way to the rear of the tracks when learning. 

So glad you posted that!

Jim, VB_Foil is like 150 lbs, if I remember correctly, riding a 2400 sq cm wing meant for 230 lb guys. So moving it way back is needed to get nose weight and leverage over that HUGE foil at his weight.

You see how silly Matt was to make those statements as fact  ;D

My tracks are in the right spot for most people. Use the center of the track, as designed, then outliers adjust as needed forward or back. Avoid Tuttle’s like the plague

With your new 5’1” board, I’m currently running it all the way to the front of the tracks...
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   4’10” 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   5’11” 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 1050, 1200, 1550, 2400
Wings: F-One Swing 3.5M and 5M

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2020, 04:25:00 AM »
You’re an outlier running a super short fuselage and tiny tail wing. You can just look at this photo and see why. You’re practically riding with just a front wing. Nothing wrong with that, just not the typical setup. Great example of why Tuttle must die.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 04:30:23 AM by Dwight (DW) »

VB_Foil

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Re: Tips for beginning wingers by REAL
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2020, 05:00:25 AM »
Great point. I’m also running a lower angle of attack on my tail wing, which reduces lift and makes your back foot slide back.
I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   4’10” 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   5’11” 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 1050, 1200, 1550, 2400
Wings: F-One Swing 3.5M and 5M