Author Topic: Second Hardboard  (Read 1134 times)

MaartenAir

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Second Hardboard
« on: March 08, 2020, 03:58:18 AM »
Hi All,
So here is my question.
Currently I paddle a Sunova The One 9'5" which I use mainly for flatwater (lakes, rivers, some chop).  I really like the board and it is perfect for daily use. Lightweight, no hassle, decent glide for it's length and it tracks surprisingly well.  I am 6'2 and 210 Lbs (53 yrs young). I feel comfortable on the board in these conditions and have used it throughout the winter.

Now I live in The Netherlands and we have often quite windy conditions. On open water my stability on the "The One" is maxed out when dealing with waves bouncing off harbours, boat wake from the side and side chop.

I'd like to go out in small surf but on the coast we have to deal with messy conditions and often side wind. I think the "The One"would be a handfull for me in those conditions.

So for tricky conditions (open water and surf) and more stability should I go for a longer board with more volume like an 11'6 x 32 200 l or something like a 10'5 x 34. Opinions wellcome. Thanks in advance, Maarten
Red Paddle Voyager+ 13'2"
Sunova The One 9'5"

Night Wing

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 06:53:14 AM »
@ MaartenAir

When you were looking at your first board and with your personal specs (6'2", 210 lbs) for flat water paddling and sup surfing. I had suggested the Starboard Widepoint 11'2" x 32" x 4.6" @ 198 Liters. But in the end, you chose to go wtih the Sunova "The One" 9'5" x 32" x 4.75" @ 160 Liters.

In windy conditions on the upper Texas coast where I sup surf at, a board with more volume is best for the wind and wave conditions and works best. We don't have perfect waves. Today, as I type this post, there are "red flag" warnings for windy conditions.

At the link below you can see the wind and not so friendly wave conditions at the streaming web cam at the link below. You can take control of the camera by left clicking on the "camera" button in the lower right corner of the window. Once you have control, the "positions" of the camera will be at the top right corner of the window. Once you left click on the positions button, left click on the "Home" position.

https://www.galveston.com/webcams/surfvideocam/

Those waves look small. They aren't. They are at least 3' in height with some 4' ones.

I'm a small guy at 144 lbs. I have found in nasty windy conditions a longer length board is better and with lots of liters of volume. My Blue Planet "Duke" loves the wind and water conditions since it is 10'5" x 32" 4.5" @ 190 Liters. Since it has 5 fin boxes, I surf it in small or large waves with a 4 fin quad setup for speed.

So for you, I'm going to suggest two boards.

At your height and weight, I still think a 32" board with lots of volume is the way to go. At 34", a board might seem "sluggish". So I'm going to re-suggest the Starboard Wide Point 11'2" x 32" x 4.6" @ 198 Liters. Since it has only 3 fin boxes, you can surf it with a 2 + 1 fin setup or as a pure thruster with all three fins the same in height.

The 11'2" is still being offered for 2020 by Starboard so it is available and it should be easy to find in the Netherlands. Below is a video of the 2017 Wide Point, but there have been slight improvements made to it since 2017. In the video, look at the size of the guy surfing the Widepoint.



The second board I would suggest is the Sunova Point Break at 12' x 32" @ 199 Liters. It has 5 fin boxes so you can surf it in any fin configuration you like. A video of it is below.



In summary. I'm a biased towards the Sunova because of it's 5 fin boxes. I think you should be able to surf the Point Break in just about any wave conditions you will encounter as long as your skills of riding some choppy waves is good enough. If your skills are not good enough, then you'll just have to keep surfing to improve you surf riding and "learn" how to surf crappy waves and master them.

I think the Point Break would be a good choice for you at your height and weight. Hope this info helps you.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 07:10:06 AM by Night Wing »
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters

MaartenAir

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 07:12:41 AM »
Night Wing thanks for taking the time to post your elaborate reply.
I checked out the webcam link and the waves over there look exactly like what we have over here!
For surf and messy conditions your reply confirms my thoughts.

Thanks again and best regards, Maarten
Red Paddle Voyager+ 13'2"
Sunova The One 9'5"

Night Wing

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2020, 07:56:31 AM »
Three more webcams showing our wind driven waves for this Sunday.

https://www.galveston.com/webcams/east-beach-videocam/

https://hdontap.com/index.php/video/stream/texas-seagull-condos-live-beach-surf-cam

And the last webcam is a more close up view.

https://webcams.windy.com/webcams/stream/1486829163

These types of waves need a board with volume because a performance board with low liters of volume....won't do it.
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters

gcs

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2020, 08:11:19 AM »
I am similar size to you and like Infinity Wide Aquatic 10 8 for those conditions.  Stable 24 lbs and surfs well too. Also JL cruise control in bigger sizes.  Likewise NSP cruise in various constructions in  the bigger sizes.  Goes up to 11 6.   Why not get the bigger Sunova One, 12 foot search, or Point Break if you can find one?   Plenty of good options. Have fun.

SouthCounty

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2020, 09:04:35 AM »
Been pretty happy with my Wide Aquatic 10'4 its stable and surfs pretty nice as well.
14' x 27" Infinity blackfish
10'4 Infinity wide aquatic

Night Wing

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2020, 11:18:09 AM »
@ MaartenAir

I went searching for some videos with some "tiny to small choppy nasty wind driven waves" which I run into sometimes when the "good" surf forecast "doesn't pan out".  ;)

I found two videos. The first one is for the Galveston Seawall at 43rd Street. The web camera you got to control is at 43rd street so you'll recognize the jetty.

In the video, you'll see lots of tiny to small nasty wind driven choppy waves. You'll also see some prone surfers. Most of these guys are between 170 lbs and above.

They spend more time waiting on a wave to surf than actual surfing a wave. Why? Because these guys are on prone surfboards which are between 60 to 90 liters in volume and their surfboards are between 6' to 9' in length.

These tiny to small choppy wind driven waves do not generate enough dynamic lift in them to support the surfer's weight to ride the wave on their surfboards. Hence, they "sit in the water waiting on a decent weave to surf more than actually surfing a wave".

In these type of wave conditions, a long sup like my Duke 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters has the advantage especially with me at 144 lbs. I can ride whitewater beach wash almost to the beach. I only need a minimal wave height of one foot in height to give me a nice gliding ride.



This second video is what I find at Galveston on a windy day with large choppy nasty waves. Again, a long length sup with high liters of volume in it has the advantage here too. This second video was taken at the 91st Street on the seawall in Galveston.



If you've got the same type of waves  in these two videos where you are in the Netherlands, a long length sup with lots of volume in it, say 185 liters or more depending on length and width is, in my opinion, the best choice.

Hope my info helps you in your search.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 11:24:33 AM by Night Wing »
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters

MaartenAir

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2020, 11:46:49 AM »
Night Wing thanks for all your help and info. Thumbs up, Maarten
Red Paddle Voyager+ 13'2"
Sunova The One 9'5"

supthecreek

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2020, 02:06:40 PM »
Hi Maarten

First off... let me be clear:
I fall ALL day, EVERY day.
It's part of SUP surfing  ;D

ok, now that I have lowered your expectations: ;)

Glad you enjoy you ONE in the flats!
It sounds like you haven't taken the ONE out in any surf yet.

So, I have a different take on your new situation.

With some decent paddle experience under your belt, on your current board.....
why not give it a go on the ONE before investing in another board?

While it may not be the perfect board for you to lean SUP surf, it WILL give you a better feel for what you may want to buy next.
If you buy before surfing at all .... you will just be guessing, or relying on our experience.

Remember:
There's an adjustment period when you enter the ocean on a SUP
Pick your days to learn.... wait for clean conditions, early morning, evening.... whenever it mellows out.
save the crappy days for once you have honed your skills a bit.


I don't care ho big or wide a board you are on.... a choppy mess is very difficult for any beginner surfer.
MY first board was 11'2 x 36" at 230 liters.
I was a master on flat-water
Day one in surf, I was mess in pure glassy ;D
Two days later... no problems!

At 53, your numbers on the ONE, are perfect with volume at 1.7 times body weight
9'5 may be a bit short for a beginner, but the ONE has good width, a flattish rocker, widish nose and tail, with decent volume in the rails.
You will be amazed at how quickly you gain balance skills, if you stick with it!

I was 67 and 230 lbs:
When my 29" wide Speeed was on it's way, I spent a month borrowing the smallest boards I could stand on and going out on the nastiest days.....
I had no expectation of ever actually catching a wave.... I just wanted to build my skills

In no time at all I was comfortable on 8'10 x 29 at 130 L
I am no physical specimen and hardly flexible at all.
What I DO have is a serious drive to be the best I can be!

You WILL rise to whatever level you set for yourself.

Have a blast and be patient!

Fast forward to 4:12 sec (it will make you feel better)




MaartenAir

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2020, 02:26:01 PM »
Hi Rick,

Thanks for the reply and words of encouragement.
Yes I enjoy the The One tremendously and I get a smile on my face everytime I go out.
The other day I could pick up bumps on a river with the current going against the wind creating some waves. That was fun.
It is probably a good idea and it won't hurt to take the 9'5"out on a glassy day on the coast first before I decide on another board.
I'll probably swim a lot  :)
Like I tell my kids we learn more from our failures than from our succes ;-)

Regards, Maarten
Red Paddle Voyager+ 13'2"
Sunova The One 9'5"

surfsupla

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2020, 03:46:18 PM »
I agree with creek (rick). Take the one out for at least 3-4 decent sessions before you pull the trigger on another board. In rough conditions you will fall in. Its going to happen. No way around it. That being said there are two schools of thought for choppy nasty conditions. The first is longer wider bigger. Seems to make sense. More volume equals more board to be able to balance on. Now call me crazy (not my idea i just bought into it 100% after it worked for me, individual results may vary) go shorter and smaller. Creek hit the nail on the head. I am your weight but 4 inches shorter. After practice you could totally surf a smaller board. The goal being to sink the board a bit. The goal for me is to have the board deck literally just above the water so water laps over my feet and ankles. My previous experiences had said thats the wrong answer. BUT it stabilizes the board in chop and and since the board is in the water mostly it does not react as much to the nasty conditions. You need to be on a good board though (shaped by someone who knows what they are doing) since you also have to have the rocker nailed down for that as well. Got to keep the nose a above the water. The creek from the sunova site should work quite well. Just another option. 

BigZ

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2020, 08:58:23 PM »
+1
Hi Maarten

First off... let me be clear:
I fall ALL day, EVERY day.
It's part of SUP surfing  ;D

ok, now that I have lowered your expectations: ;)

Glad you enjoy you ONE in the flats!
It sounds like you haven't taken the ONE out in any surf yet.

So, I have a different take on your new situation.

With some decent paddle experience under your belt, on your current board.....
why not give it a go on the ONE before investing in another board?

While it may not be the perfect board for you to lean SUP surf, it WILL give you a better feel for what you may want to buy next.
If you buy before surfing at all .... you will just be guessing, or relying on our experience.

Remember:
There's an adjustment period when you enter the ocean on a SUP
Pick your days to learn.... wait for clean conditions, early morning, evening.... whenever it mellows out.
save the crappy days for once you have honed your skills a bit.


I don't care ho big or wide a board you are on.... a choppy mess is very difficult for any beginner surfer.
MY first board was 11'2 x 36" at 230 liters.
I was a master on flat-water
Day one in surf, I was mess in pure glassy ;D
Two days later... no problems!

At 53, your numbers on the ONE, are perfect with volume at 1.7 times body weight
9'5 may be a bit short for a beginner, but the ONE has good width, a flattish rocker, widish nose and tail, with decent volume in the rails.
You will be amazed at how quickly you gain balance skills, if you stick with it!

I was 67 and 230 lbs:
When my 29" wide Speeed was on it's way, I spent a month borrowing the smallest boards I could stand on and going out on the nastiest days.....
I had no expectation of ever actually catching a wave.... I just wanted to build my skills

In no time at all I was comfortable on 8'10 x 29 at 130 L
I am no physical specimen and hardly flexible at all.
What I DO have is a serious drive to be the best I can be!

You WILL rise to whatever level you set for yourself.

Have a blast and be patient!

Fast forward to 4:12 sec (it will make you feel better)


BigZ

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2020, 09:02:44 PM »
This is exactly my experience. A stable shape with about 25-30 liters of extra volume on top of your weight in kilograms gives you a perfect mix of comfort and performance. Challenge yourself for a few weeks with you current board and then go down not up in volume.

I agree with creek (rick). Take the one out for at least 3-4 decent sessions before you pull the trigger on another board. In rough conditions you will fall in. Its going to happen. No way around it. That being said there are two schools of thought for choppy nasty conditions. The first is longer wider bigger. Seems to make sense. More volume equals more board to be able to balance on. Now call me crazy (not my idea i just bought into it 100% after it worked for me, individual results may vary) go shorter and smaller. Creek hit the nail on the head. I am your weight but 4 inches shorter. After practice you could totally surf a smaller board. The goal being to sink the board a bit. The goal for me is to have the board deck literally just above the water so water laps over my feet and ankles. My previous experiences had said thats the wrong answer. BUT it stabilizes the board in chop and and since the board is in the water mostly it does not react as much to the nasty conditions. You need to be on a good board though (shaped by someone who knows what they are doing) since you also have to have the rocker nailed down for that as well. Got to keep the nose a above the water. The creek from the sunova site should work quite well. Just another option.

MaartenAir

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2020, 11:24:02 PM »
Thanks Surfsupla, BigZ and the other contributors.
I'll give the The One a go on a mellow day and report back.
Regards, Maarten
Red Paddle Voyager+ 13'2"
Sunova The One 9'5"

PonoBill

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Re: Second Hardboard
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2020, 10:20:02 AM »
Most of the things we think limit us in SUP surfing are in our heads. If you think you're going to fall, you'll fall. I'm 73, 6'2" and 226# as of this morning. My favorite surfboard for all conditions is a Foote 10'4" X 34". It's a barge, but it turns like a 9'0". My favorite board for downwinding is the SIC 17.5" X 26.5" V1. It's not particularly stable but I've done hundreds, and maybe a thousand downwinders on it, and I'm comfortable on it.

Those are my favorites, but I also have an SIC Ku Nalu in Maui and a Starboard 12'2" in Hood River. They are the same board, the starboard was built under license from Mark Raaphorst who started SIC. Both are 12'2" X 26", and it's really more like 25.5". I've surfed these, sailed them, raced them, fished off them, and downwinded them. I doubt there is a less stable commercially available 12-foot board on the planet. When I get on the 12'2" for the first time after a long layoff I fall and fall. It takes some time for me to get used to it again. But after a nasty session, I'm fine--regardless of conditions. The falling is all in my head. I think I'm going to fall--so I fall.

Last year in Maui after a morning of puttering around on the Ku Nalu the wind came up on the south side. The conditions went from flat to ripping in just a few minutes, as it often does here. Excellent downwind conditions and the only board I had was the Ku Nalu. So I went. Not only did I have a great run, but it was zero falls. I had to concentrate at all times to stay on the board. When I do the same run with my more stable V1 I typically fall at least three times.

The point of this long diatribe is that while there is nothing wrong with getting another board to suit conditions, there is no reason you can't use the board you have. You fall for a while, and then you'll fall less, and finally, you'll hardly fall at all.

There is NO sup board that can keep you from falling in a vicious Maliko run. A board wide enough and stable enough to do that would be impossible to use in those conditions. You don't improve by getting a board more suited to your conditions, you improve by adapting to the conditions with whatever equipment you want to use.  What keeps you up is you.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.