Author Topic: GoFoil files patent on anhedral wing, foam core wing, & foil w/front & back wing  (Read 1302 times)

PriorArt

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Alex Aguera / Go Foil Inc has submitted patent application US20190127031A1 https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190127031A1/en?q=~patent%2fUS10160525B2&status=APPLICATION which is currently pending with the United States Patent Office.

Go Foil's current patents https://patents.google.com/patent/US9789935B1/en are pretty narrow and can be condensed to foils that include one of these claims:

Claim 1 - 20:

A foil "where the maximum thickness aspect ratio of the forward foil portion is between 14% and 17%."

-Most of today's foils are not this thick.

Claim 21:

A foil "where the main lifting foil portion has a maximum thickness located at first distance from an edge of the main lifting foil portion."

-Most foils are not designed this way.

Claim 22:

a strut having a maximum thickness between 6 and 12 millimeters

-Most struts (masts) are 14/15mm thick

However,

Go Foil's new application is considerably broader and covers just about any foil that include one of the following:

Claim 1: "an anhedral-shaped forward foil portion"

-There are a bunch of foils on the market with anhedral shaped front wings

Claim 3: "includes two wings extending outwardly from the first end of the fuselage; and "two wings extending outwardly from the second end of the fuselage."

-That's what I call swinging for the fences. It basically covers every foil on the market. Kite, SUP, surf etc.

Claim 11: "an opposite foil portion connected to a first end of the fuselage; and "two wings extending outwardly from the second end of the fuselage."

-If Claim 3 is swinging for the fences, this is trying tie the whole industry around your finger.

There's a decent amount of prior art that can challenge 3 and 11. But the fact that he is going for them is concerning. If this is granted he will wield a very large stick in the industry until somebody pays the legal bill to challenge him. A few Google searches will find foils on the market before May 17, 2016 (the filing date of the original patent) that show he did not invent Claim 3 or 11. This makes me wonder about the anhedral wing. Did he really invent that?


« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 03:48:55 PM by PriorArt »

Piros

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That's really interesting , lets see how it goes. Only took me 5 mins to find this 2014 anhedral pic but do agree the thickness ratios on the leading edge is genuinely Gofoils conception. More interestingly now though everyone is now going back to the thinner flatter wings including GoFoil.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 04:23:29 PM by Piros »
Von Piros Productions
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PriorArt

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I'm all for patent rights and protecting your invention. The original filing certainly has merit, but it's hard to see how this newer filing was done in good faith.

supmmmm

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Mike Murphyís been riding foils since the 60s - Iím sure heís got some patents to his name - donít see him going for the IP land grab thatís going on here.

PonoBill

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Patents changed a bit in 2011 and have become a bit more "first to file" instead of "first to invent" where prior art held priority. It could well be that some additional searching of patents reveals a lot of holes in the existing patents, and any patent attorney would file on those. An unintended (maybe) consequence of the patent law changes was giving patent trolls a potent tool.

Patents can still be opposed on the basis of prior art, but someone with that claim would need to file an opposition. Once a patent is granted, anyone trolling for licensing fees recognizes that hitting a larger company that probably does have valid prior art claims who can afford the legal fees to fight will probably invalidate the patent. So they don't do that, they go after little guys first, and when they have a nice backlog wins for licenses they go after the rest.

Any legal effort is a nasty and expensive process, and a huge time sink, distracting companies from doing the stuff that makes them grow, but in some cases it's worthwhile. A nice string of patents and licensing agreements makes a company more valuable, both for selling to a larger company or for attracting private capital.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 08:07:30 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

soepkip

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Perhaps they should spend some more time updating their website instead of filing bullshit patents.

In europe Gofoil was very expensive already but the price went up : a few months ago I wrote: I already have a 29,5 mast but if I want to get the GL 240 plus tail and pedestal it will cost Ä 1156,66 incl shipping
This is now 1,383.00 Ä :'( :'( :'( :'(



red_tx

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Perhaps they should spend some more time updating their website instead of filing bullshit patents.

+me

Thatspec

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Love the GF stuff I have but (patent issue aside) this looks more and more like a hobby business... That I have to find out about the new products I wonít be able to get via an Australian forum or a link to some random Instagram, hard to support this given the competition.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 02:01:57 AM by Thatspec »

PriorArt

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Patents changed a bit in 2011 and have become a bit more "first to file" instead of "first to invent" where prior art held priority. It could well be that some additional searching of patents reveals a lot of holes in the existing patents, and any patent attorney would file on those. An unintended (maybe) consequence of the patent law changes was giving patent trolls a potent tool.

Patents can still be opposed on the basis of prior art, but someone with that claim would need to file an opposition.

My understanding is "first to invent" means "first to think of" but if an invention is reduced to practice (created) and published publicly then someone cannot later file a patent on it. For example the, guy in the picture from 2014 clearly has an anhedral front wing. I can't later file a patent on the anhedral wing because someone has built one and published it publicly before my filing. It seems anyone should be able to use publicly available prior art to challenge a patent, not just the creator of the publicly available prior art but I'm not a lawyer.

What I think changed is if I think of an invention, tell someone about it who files a patent before I build it or file a patent, they own the invention.  Basically if I think of an invention I have to file a patent on it, or create one, document it and keep it private, or some else can beat me to it.

Thatspec

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Go Foil has seen the writing on the wall, the market simply canít support their pricing structure. Better to make money off other people making foils. Pure unbridled capitalism. Iíve no problem with that but doubt their application will go anywhere.

surfcowboy

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Thatspec, I agree. This sport suffered the shortest ďmake your r&d money back before youíre copied and improved upon for cheapĒ ever.

The SUP equivalent would be as if Ron House And Sean Ordonez had a year of production and then Jimmy Stix hit the market for $300 the next. It was brutal. I bought a $700 foil and while Iíll upgrade Iím sure, how far will I go up the chain?

Seems expensive to run a legal challenge from the islands and counter to the lifestyle. I hope they have some miserable law firm in Chicago or NY to insulate them from the hassles. I mean that in the best way I can. Alex deserves some bread, but not sure this is the way to try to get it.

But what do I know?

I hope they start with the Ali Baba crew because if they go after Signature and other innovators itís going to look bad.

SanoSlatchSup

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Perhaps they should spend some more time updating their website instead of filing bullshit patents.
Hahaha....+1

Me: 6'1"/185...6'0" Kings Foil Board...6'0" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

supmmmm

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I hope they start with the Ali Baba crew because if they go after Signature and other innovators itís going to look bad.

And thatís my issue with this - lock down the basic concept as IP and stifle any future innovation

jondrums

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We shall see of course, by my betting money is that Alex hired someone to get him a patent because one of his investors told him he had to.  These days the patent office will grant most anything, preferring to let the courts sort it out later if there is prior art.  So, he's got his patent and investor is happy.  I highly doubt this means GoFoil is going to try and sue over it.  No lawyer takes that case since it is so clearly a losing proposition.

PonoBill

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My understanding is "first to invent" means "first to think of" but if an invention is reduced to practice (created) and published publicly then someone cannot later file a patent on it. For example the, guy in the picture from 2014 clearly has an anhedral front wing. I can't later file a patent on the anhedral wing because someone has built one and published it publicly before my filing. It seems anyone should be able to use publicly available prior art to challenge a patent, not just the creator of the publicly available prior art but I'm not a lawyer.

What I think changed is if I think of an invention, tell someone about it who files a patent before I build it or file a patent, they own the invention.  Basically if I think of an invention I have to file a patent on it, or create one, document it and keep it private, or some else can beat me to it.

The USA was somewhat unique in that our patent law was more or less based on first to invent. And yes, as your last sentence states, now it's more like the rest of the world as "first to file". If you invent something and don't patent it, and someone else does, then they can indeed receive the patent and defend it. The patent office used to do careful research on prior art and refuse patents when they discovered it. They don't really do that now. Here's the wikipedia reference on the 2011 changes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy%E2%80%93Smith_America_Invents_Act 

The change doesn't prevent someone from contesting the patent either while it's being considered or afterward when it's being applied to other manufacturers. But the burden is now on the person demonstrating that prior art exists (no, they don't have to be the inventor, they would most likely be a competitor), and the legal barriers are nasty and expensive. It's not something you can just do yourself. So all the bullshit stuff about protecting your invention by mailing pictures to yourself are even stupider now--if that's possible.

These days you could file a patent on a surfboard as a new invention and receive the patent. But when you tried to extract licensing fees you'd most likely lose the patent.

As I've mentioned before, I was a "beneficiary" of the changes in how the patent office does business--even prior to 2011. I have a bullshit patent that would theoretically allow me to extract licensing fees from Google, Amazon, and any company that connects web visits to data. But if I tried to enforce it I'd mostly get to spend a lot of money on lawyers and lose. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 11:57:23 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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