Author Topic: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE  (Read 17606 times)

cnski

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #105 on: September 11, 2020, 03:16:47 AM »
does anyone know if the Echo 7m requires the little extension line for the draft control line when using the longer boom?
I understand that's the only boom that works for the 7m, so likely wouldn't be required. but can't find a way to confirm that.
thanks
You do not need the extension pigtail line fitness draft control rope with the 6 or 7m the line is already setup perfectly for the long boom as that is the Only boom it works with.  The extension is provided  a with the 4 or 5m only and you only use it when  rigging with the Long boom, don't not use it when rigging with short boom.  (Comment from Dan G. copied from another source)



 

judoChop!

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #106 on: September 11, 2020, 10:13:17 AM »
does anyone know if the Echo 7m requires the little extension line for the draft control line when using the longer boom?
I understand that's the only boom that works for the 7m, so likely wouldn't be required. but can't find a way to confirm that.
thanks
You do not need the extension pigtail line fitness draft control rope with the 6 or 7m the line is already setup perfectly for the long boom as that is the Only boom it works with.  The extension is provided  a with the 4 or 5m only and you only use it when  rigging with the Long boom, don't not use it when rigging with short boom.  (Comment from Dan G. copied from another source)
Great thanks. That's what I figured.

still it seems a bit tight on mine (which I've used for a total of only 1hr). There is a kink in the fabric alone the center batten, and the leech on one side flutters a lot when riding upwind. figured it could be a cause, but maybe just because it's new and needs to bag out & settle a bit.

blueplanetsurf

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #107 on: September 30, 2020, 02:11:04 PM »
does anyone know if the Echo 7m requires the little extension line for the draft control line when using the longer boom?
I understand that's the only boom that works for the 7m, so likely wouldn't be required. but can't find a way to confirm that.
thanks
You do not need the extension pigtail line fitness draft control rope with the 6 or 7m the line is already setup perfectly for the long boom as that is the Only boom it works with.  The extension is provided  a with the 4 or 5m only and you only use it when  rigging with the Long boom, don't not use it when rigging with short boom.  (Comment from Dan G. copied from another source)

Great thanks. That's what I figured.

still it seems a bit tight on mine (which I've used for a total of only 1hr). There is a kink in the fabric alone the center batten, and the leech on one side flutters a lot when riding upwind. figured it could be a cause, but maybe just because it's new and needs to bag out & settle a bit.
Sounds like you might need to make the boom a little longer to flatten the profile.
Robert Stehlik
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Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

Phils

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #108 on: October 05, 2020, 01:27:40 AM »
Any more user impressions of the ECHO?  Thoughts on low end of the 5 or 6 compared to other wings you have tried. (not interested in the 7)  How is the balance when holding front handle only?  Thanks

obxDave

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2020, 06:43:35 PM »
Any more user impressions of the ECHO?  Thoughts on low end of the 5 or 6 compared to other wings you have tried. (not interested in the 7)  How is the balance when holding front handle only?  Thanks

I am completely happy with both my 5 and 6m. Iím glad I have both, and I also would not be interested in the 7m at my weight. The 6m just feels as big as Iíd want to have fun with. I have no idea what my official low end is on the 6m since I havenít used my Kestrel meter at all lately. Guess I need to start doing that.

I still prefer a single hand on the front of the boom versus the handle. The wing is always more stable for me with that grip and I can repower very quickly. Only time I use the front handle is for behind the back tacks, which Iím not indulging in for now to avoid any more finger twisting :o

« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 06:46:06 PM by obxDave »

SUPeter

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #110 on: October 15, 2020, 05:08:00 AM »
I'm a little late to this thread but just having purchased a 6M Echo, I thought I'd give my first impressions.

Other than some homemade wings, the only wings I have used are Naish 4m (V1). Gong wings 5,7.  F-one Swings 5,6. BRM 5. Ozone Wasp 4.

Conditions- 10-18 kts, on and off.
Two initial impressions   1) I absolutely love the boom.  It makes transitions very easy and balancing forearm workload very nice.  and 2) I absolutlely hate the
boom.  That damn thing is heavy, especially in light winds.  What a stark difference from the F-ones.  Also very frustrating is the rear end of the boom wants to sink making dislodging it from the water somewhat of a problem.  The fact that the wing wants to turn turtle whenever it lays on the waters surface does not help either.   

While in flight I found the Echo to be a little twitchy.  In higher gusts it would have a tendency to dive if you positioned it anywhere beyond the depower angle of attack. Im sure this is only a matter of practice and by the end of the session, it was lesss of a problem.  The wing sailed well upwind and has a good deal of take-off power.  I will soon be fabricating an adjustable carbon boom from an old paddle shaft.  I just have to remember where I saw a video or pictures of how that was done.  Seems pretty easy.  Once thats done, things should get better.

Beasho

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #111 on: October 15, 2020, 06:08:58 AM »
1) I absolutely love the boom.  It makes transitions very easy and balancing forearm workload very nice.  and 2) I absolutlely hate the
boom.  That damn thing is heavy, especially in light winds.  ....  I just have to remember where I saw a video or pictures of how that was done.  Seems pretty easy.  Once thats done, things should get better.

Here was the PonoBill Carbon Conversion

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35221.msg405437.html#msg405437


PonoBill

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #113 on: October 15, 2020, 10:36:13 AM »
Shimming the carbon tube can be with that heavy chunk of the old boom can be avoided (other than a few wraps of aluminum tape) if you use a KeNalu paddle shaft. It's taper just happens to be perfect for this. Both the front boom end and the rear end fit with minimal shimming. All I do is get them snug with aluminum tape and hot glue the ends in place.

I fiddled a lot with adjustable bits, but determined that a fixed-length with a sliding outhaul made a lot more sense--lighter, stronger, easy to rig, and the extra boom length sticking out the back is no big deal--handy place to mount a gopro.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

deja vu

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2020, 11:21:11 AM »
1) I absolutely love the boom.  It makes transitions very easy and balancing forearm workload very nice.  and 2) I absolutlely hate the
boom.  That damn thing is heavy, especially in light winds.  ....  I just have to remember where I saw a video or pictures of how that was done.  Seems pretty easy.  Once thats done, things should get better.

Here was the PonoBill Carbon Conversion

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35221.msg405437.html#msg405437

Not many Echo owners mention the fact that the rear of the wing will sink under certain conditions (like a windsurf sail under certain conditions) and it's really tough to get the whole wing back on the surface -- can be frustrating and tiring.  I have 4 and 6 metre Wasps retrofitted with carbon booms and I prefer them over my 5 metre Echo.  There's a video of Allan Cadiz testing a Duotone prototype, which has both a centre strut with a boom attached -- this would solve a number of problems much like my retrofitted Wasps (much tamer when on the water and the centre strut prevents the rear of the wing from sinking).  Besides Hot Wings Maui, I haven't seen any commercially available wing with a centre strut along with a solid boom.  The Cabrinha V2 comes the closest that I know of with its two long semi-rigid handles.

I'm going to replace my Echo with either a 5 metre Wasp (and use the boom from my 6 metre Wasp since the 5 and 6 both have six handles) or purchase a 5 metre Cabrinha V2.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 11:28:18 AM by deja vu »

burchas

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #115 on: October 15, 2020, 01:57:42 PM »
... There's a video of Allan Cadiz testing a Duotone prototype, which has both a centre strut with a boom attached -- this would solve a number of problems...

Word on the street is that Duotone is going Alula fabric for their next wing. I'll be waiting a bit more before investing in a new wing.
in progress...

deja vu

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2020, 04:18:10 PM »
... There's a video of Allan Cadiz testing a Duotone prototype, which has both a centre strut with a boom attached -- this would solve a number of problems...

Word on the street is that Duotone is going Alula fabric for their next wing. I'll be waiting a bit more before investing in a new wing.

Winter is about to start where I live so I'll take your advice and wait until spring before making another purchase.

obxDave

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2020, 11:40:50 PM »
Hmmm,...twitchy, heavy boom, and sinking tail.

Twitchyness: To me this wing is rock solid through a massive wind range.

Heavy boom: Iím sure the mod to a fixed carbon boom would be nice but Iím not loosing sleep over needing to do this mod right away. Maybe over the winter. As long as there is enough wind to get me up on foil, that same wind holds the wing up nicely (I never use a harness). It would be nice to reduce weight for flinging the wing quickly around on tacks, and schlogging around in very light wind off-foil

The sinking tail: Never spent time thinking about it till it was mentioned here. Guess it never really bothered me. A boom wing is all I ever really use so I guess Iíve gotten OK at dealing with it in the water.

Iíll reiterate a few pluses. I hated the extra inflate/deflate time of the the center strut (and this from someone whoís kiteboarded with 5 strut kites for 20 yrs)

This is mostly freestyle stuff.
Not only is one handed riding easy, you can easily twist (point) the leading edge up and down single handed to deal with gusts. Doubt that would work quite as well with handles. 

When it comes to trickier moves like 360ís where the wing is briefly pushing back on you while backwinded you donít get any slop in the wing response at all. I tried 360ís on my Naish S25,...it was not a pretty site :o

Of course regrabs on upwind transitions are always easier with a boom. Iíve gotten to the point where I do more upwind tacks during a session than I do jibes. The regrab on heel to toeside tacks and behind-the-backs has to be pretty quick, at least for my slow moving brain. Iím just too spastic to pull it off with handles 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 11:44:14 PM by obxDave »

oakfish

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #118 on: October 16, 2020, 06:13:45 AM »
SINKING TAIL!
I thought I was the only one.  This is a huge problem on my v1 Duotone 5m.  Several of the posts above detail different problems, but here is the worst situation:
Before mounting the board, you lay the wing right side up in the water downwind of your board. As you get up, the wind catches the nose of the wing, pushing the nose up while the tail sinks.  When this happens, you end up with wing upside down in the water, nose pointed away from you, tail close to you, and the tail underwater.  Takes herculean strength to pull it out of the water.  But if you don't pull it out in time, the wind will push you and the board overtop of the wing and everything gets royally screwed.  If an inflatable center strut fixes this problem, I may have to move away from the boom.
All that said, I do LOVE the boom while underway.  The single hand hold to rest, wipe water off face, etc, is awesome.

SUPeter

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Re: New 2020 wing by DUOTONE
« Reply #119 on: October 16, 2020, 06:47:33 AM »
Just what I needed. Thanks for the video.  Thanks for all the other tips.  These "problems" that I noted probably only become more apparent on the 6M Echo.  Just the size and weight of the boom relative to the amount of wind a 6 M is used in, I guess. As I said, with practice, the twitchiness went away.  I will be definitely making a carbon boom, with a little extra flotation(foam), placed on the very end in a aerodynamic fashion to prevent unwanted tail sink.

 


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