Author Topic: Minimum volume board for knee start?  (Read 1563 times)

FoilMad

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Minimum volume board for knee start?
« on: February 04, 2020, 02:14:57 AM »
Hi All,

Background: I have been kite foiling for three years and prone surf foiling for over two years (Short board surfing for decades). I am 64kg and 179cm tall, located in Australia and am in the Ocean everyday.
My prone foil board is 30l 4í5″ and i can stand on it in deep water start stance but not get out of the water on it yet. It guess it will be useful later in my learning curve for a strong wind option. As I donít SUP foil I am looking for as small a volume board to learn on that will still allow me to float and start on my knees with the wing. I have seen the below footage of billy and this makes me believe i can buy a 60l 5í0″ wing board but would appreciate fellow wingers opinions on what is possible. It doesnít bother me if it takes quite a few sessions to learn to balance and start as long as it will be consistently easy,with practice, to start on this size board. I donít wish to buy a SUP first as I think this step can be avoided with some perseverance.

Thanks for your help.

bayareakitesurf.com/tested-f-one-rocket-wing-54-70l-by-billy-ackerman/

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2020, 04:15:24 AM »
Go for it. Whatís the worst that can happen, you get a little frustrated, or you have beg a friend to let you ride a SUP for one or two times. Then youíre good.

Itís a dam good article.... Maybe because I agree with him  ;D ;D

Tip, one the reasons a wing board performs nearly like prone boards, is the track location. Itís shoved forward. Not as far forward as a SUP, but still....This makes the track to nose length of a 5í1, the same as a 4í8 prone board. Thatís why Billy is impressed with how sporty it rides in my opinion.

https://bayareakitesurf.com/tested-f-one-rocket-wing-54-70l-by-billy-ackerman/?utm_source=seabreeze.com.au
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 04:21:34 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Admin

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2020, 07:36:31 AM »
Here is a good one of a guy kneestarting on a 50L board:


supmmmm

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2020, 08:43:12 AM »
Not quite a knee start but - same guy as above getting a 29L
Board going.


JEG

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2020, 01:54:58 PM »
In my opinion you need a bigger board and wing to begin with as I'm going through this learning curve at the moment.

FoilMad

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 02:11:26 PM »
Thanks everybody for their help.

I would expect for my weight a surface start would have a minimum volume like 50 l for example (maybe its 60 l, who knows) and below that the board sinks to the point where you are now doing a sinker type start and much less volume would be easier for this type of start. Maybe 20 to 30 l. I am specific interested in a surface start for riding in the swell and waves.

Standing on a SUP in trying conditions is challenging when the volume of the board is your weight in Kg + 15 l but it becomes very easy when you retreat to your knees. I don't want to be winging with 80 or 70 l if it is only slightly harder to start on a board with 60 l. I just don't know if this tipping point for me is at 50 l, 60, or 70 l but i am guessing it is one of the three.

DW, I get from your reply that a surface start with 60l will be easy with experience and its just a question whether i can get there with just kite foiling and prone foiling experience. Have you or any of your fellow wingers settled on a surface knee start board that has a volume in litres that is close to your weight in kg? Would this be the light wind option or do you still retreat to the SUP for a percentage of conditions?

Thanks again.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2020, 02:57:17 PM »
Have you or any of your fellow wingers settled on a surface knee start board that has a volume in litres that is close to your weight in kg?

Thanks again.

Yes, we all ride close to our weight in Kg.

Iím 65 yrs old. 86kg. I can ride my 82 liter board, but my 90 liter is just easier for this old man.
My 50 yr old friend is 75 kg. He rides my 82 liter board.
My 40 yr old friend is 93 kg. He rides my 90 liter board.

So at your 64 kg, 60 liters is fine if younger, not so good if an old man.

We are all kite foilers on this list. It was easy for all of us. The only learning curve, is the 2 days of screwing with the wing, and learning how to hold and pump it.

PonoBill

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2020, 11:40:20 PM »
Basic physics--if you are 64 kg a 64-liter board will just float you in fresh water with the deck wet. In saltwater it's 1.020 to 1.029 kg/liter so about 62 liters with the deck damp. If you're looking for a minimum for a knee start that doesn't involve anything slick, then this is it. You can stand on that and it won't sink deeper. Anything less and you'll need to submerge some body bits to make up for the buoyancy difference. At your 64 Kg weight corrected for saltwater, Foot Ė 1.45%=.93 liters, Lower leg Ė 4.65%=3 liters, Thigh Ė 9.88%=6.3 liters

So if you're willing to stand knee-deep in saltwater it's 62-(.93+4.65)=56.42 liters. 60 liters should float you about mid-calf.

We aren't ALL kite foilers, I know of at least three of us that aren't.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 11:48:03 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Solent Foiler

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2020, 03:04:39 AM »
Don't forget the weight of the board too!  ;)
I'm 5'10", 65kg riding:
Naish Hover Crossover 120
Gong Catch 5'3"
on Naish foils (1250 & 1650).
Gong Plus wings - 4m, 5m

PonoBill

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2020, 12:27:12 PM »
you're right, I did forget that.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2020, 10:48:43 AM »
Just popped over to read the Gong forum. Patrice (Gong designer) is semi ranting about people determined to ride low volume, shooting themselves in the foot. My translation.

Patrice is saying your weight plus 10 liters.

Thatís 90 liters for me. Hey, Iím already riding 90 liters.  ;D We think alike.  ;D

flkiter

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2020, 01:52:47 PM »
I was thinking of going to a low volume board. I'm on a DW 90 liter wing board. After an awesome day riding yesterday and saying "just one more sesh" I ended up about a half mile off shore when the wind switch direction and dropped off. Lucky I was able to still stand on the board and sail in slowly. Unless I move to Maui, I'll be keeping with high liter boards. I don't see any performance negatives with some extra liters under you. DW's design is way a head of the industry.

Admin

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2020, 01:24:09 AM »
Not quite a knee start but - same guy as above getting a 29L
Board going.



Waterstarts are going to be a different beast.  Just in terms of sinking, mounting and controlling the board underwater, lower volume is easier on a sinker.  The 4'2 in the video is actually 26.5 liters and the guy is 190 lbs.  A few liters changes things from really difficult to very manageable. 

On a kneestart board too little volume is a lot of work in wild conditions.  If the kneestart board is going to be your high wind board (no sinker) and you see wild conditions, then it seems like a little more volume will be super helpful.  If your kneestart board is only going to be for the lightest winds then you can probably shed a few liters. 

FoilMad

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Re: Minimum volume board for knee start?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2020, 11:52:46 PM »
Thanks Again for all the replies.
DWight your references are invaluable so i thank you very much. I have decided to go for a 70 litres 5'4" X 23 and I believe this will provide a better guarantee for light wind success.
I will report back on my learning experience when the board arrives as it may help someone else make an expensive choice.
Happy winging  :)  :)  :)