Author Topic: Mast length  (Read 7599 times)

winged surfer

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Mast length
« on: January 21, 2020, 07:12:01 AM »
what are you currently using?
i just switched from the 72 cm to the 82 cm but did not try it yet.
is anyone on the 100 cm? what is in general the difference in terms of riding an 80 cm mast and a 100 cm mast?
thanks


supkailua

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 07:29:00 AM »
As you go longer it becomes harder to catch the swell energy because the wing normally rides further down in the water.

I changed from a 90 cm to 72 cm and like the 72 cm better. It is easier to carry on land and in and out of the water. I have less issues worrying about hitting coral. I do feel like I can ride/feel smaller swells with the wing closer to the swell energy. It still gives me enough length to go upwind nicely and to prevent foiling out.

The longer mast gives you more up and down range and could take you over big chop easier.

Wind Runner

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2020, 08:36:14 AM »
Questions about mast length.  I have never foiled, but am interested in it.  When using a longer mast, does the foil ride deeper in the water, or does the board fly higher above the water?  Or is it both?  I'd also like to have an idea of how shallow you can safely ride.  I kite in an area that has varying depths and shoals and want to know what I can safely ride over, either with a kite or with a wing.  Thanks.

DavidJohn

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2020, 08:43:24 AM »
In my opinion mostly the board flys higher with a longer mast rather than the foil flys deeper but when going across swells itís often a bit of both.

maiz

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2020, 10:41:32 AM »
Mast weight is also a consideration, if aluminum. I only tried the 36in (91cm) mast once in light wind and seemed a bit more challenging to get the board out of the water. Switched to 30in (76cm) and had an easier time with it. Could have been more mental block than reality and is less an issue once on foil.  That said, 30in in decent Columbia river chop feels like a good length.

obxDave

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2020, 10:46:19 AM »
Questions about mast length.  I have never foiled, but am interested in it.  When using a longer mast, does the foil ride deeper in the water, or does the board fly higher above the water?  Or is it both?  I'd also like to have an idea of how shallow you can safely ride.  I kite in an area that has varying depths and shoals and want to know what I can safely ride over, either with a kite or with a wing.  Thanks.

Just my own feeble observation. You can go reasonably shallow if youíre willing to put up with a shorter mast. Iíve done quite a bit of Winging in 3 ft deep water with a 65cm mast. Even have a few areas I wing over where Iíd have to walk out 50 yards to restart if I ever came off the foil. With shallow water the chop generally doesnít get too high but if it does go over something like 12Ē it becomes more challenging with breaching, touchdowns and the foil reacting to the swell. Itís actually good practice for improving your pitch control.

 Any shallower than 3 ft requiring something less than 65cm for mast length is just not worth it for me. Note we have a soft bottom where we ride. If your talking rock and or corral I wouldnít cut it close at all.

When you are first learning itís nice to have water you can stand in but not so shallow that the foil is bumping off the bottom when youíre plowing along at slow speed . Not always easy to find those sorts of locations with reasonable winds

For kitefoiling, with ok wind and decent skills you can get away with a mast that is a bit longer than the water depth, since you can basically pull yourself right up onto the foil from a water start position. I might be banished from the forum for saying this but donít overlook kitefoiling either. Winging is awesome but kitefoiling still offers all kinds of thrills youíll never get from a wing. Iíll have way more fun kitefoiling in 8-12 mph than I ever would trying to wing in those winds.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 11:00:09 AM by obxDave »

Wind Runner

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2020, 12:42:50 PM »
Questions about mast length.  I have never foiled, but am interested in it.  When using a longer mast, does the foil ride deeper in the water, or does the board fly higher above the water?  Or is it both?  I'd also like to have an idea of how shallow you can safely ride.  I kite in an area that has varying depths and shoals and want to know what I can safely ride over, either with a kite or with a wing.  Thanks.

Just my own feeble observation. You can go reasonably shallow if youíre willing to put up with a shorter mast. Iíve done quite a bit of Winging in 3 ft deep water with a 65cm mast. Even have a few areas I wing over where Iíd have to walk out 50 yards to restart if I ever came off the foil. With shallow water the chop generally doesnít get too high but if it does go over something like 12Ē it becomes more challenging with breaching, touchdowns and the foil reacting to the swell. Itís actually good practice for improving your pitch control.

 Any shallower than 3 ft requiring something less than 65cm for mast length is just not worth it for me. Note we have a soft bottom where we ride. If your talking rock and or corral I wouldnít cut it close at all.

When you are first learning itís nice to have water you can stand in but not so shallow that the foil is bumping off the bottom when youíre plowing along at slow speed . Not always easy to find those sorts of locations with reasonable winds

For kitefoiling, with ok wind and decent skills you can get away with a mast that is a bit longer than the water depth, since you can basically pull yourself right up onto the foil from a water start position. I might be banished from the forum for saying this but donít overlook kitefoiling either. Winging is awesome but kitefoiling still offers all kinds of thrills youíll never get from a wing. Iíll have way more fun kitefoiling in 8-12 mph than I ever would trying to wing in those winds.  Good luck!

Thanks obxDave!  Yes, kite foiling is probably the best "foil entry path" for me right now.

Phils

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2020, 05:09:24 AM »
As you go longer it becomes harder to catch the swell energy because the wing normally rides further down in the water.


I have been working on maximizing glide last few sessions and am now realizing how true the above statement is.  I hadnít really noticed it in bigger ocean waves, but it really makes a huge difference in small wind swell.  I seem to naturally ride at the same height over the water regardless of mast length so will go back to 72 from current 85 unless I expect big swell.

maiz

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2021, 10:07:47 AM »
Revisiting this conversation. After a year of playing and switching up to Armstrong foils. I'm finding the 72cm (28") mast breaching more frequently than I'd prefer. Surely there is pilot error involved, so I'm wondering what others are recommending these days. Where's the sweet-spot for swell riding, 72/85/100cm (28,33,39 inches)?

winged surfer

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2021, 10:19:21 AM »
Iím using the 85 Armstrong mast and my foil NEVER breach.
I love it and even in rough conditions i donít find the need to have it longer.

winddoctor

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2021, 11:10:06 AM »
Revisiting this conversation. After a year of playing and switching up to Armstrong foils. I'm finding the 72cm (28") mast breaching more frequently than I'd prefer. Surely there is pilot error involved, so I'm wondering what others are recommending these days. Where's the sweet-spot for swell riding, 72/85/100cm (28,33,39 inches)?

The 85 is so much nicer for reducing breaching, especially in chop and swell. It also allows you to bank harder without breaching as well. I had the same issue on the 72 and found it frustrating breaching so often but it was also new pilot error. I have a much better sense now of ride height. I'd love to try a 100cm mast, but the 85 is close to the sweet spot, I reckon.
6'5" 200 pounds. Armstrong HA1125, HA925, HA725, HS1850, HS1250 Foils. Armstrong 5'11" FG, Quatro WingDrifter 72L, KT 3m, 4m, 5m Armstrong V2 A-Wing 2.5

WingNut Ohana

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2021, 02:53:36 PM »
I ride the 72cm Armstrong on a 5í4Ē 95L board. When I tried the 85cm over a couple of days I noticed a couple of unexpected things. Riding higher was the expected and was nice over the ocean chop here on Maui.

1, On my shortish board, the extra weight of the 85 was sinking the back of the board while on the water, I either had to stand much more forward on the board, causing the whole board to be underwater,  or move the mast forward almost an inch which changed all the foiling dynamics.

2, The other thing I noticed was that on the rare times when touch-downs happened, the extra length of the 85 caused my short board to hit the water at such a steep angle it pearled and was not able to skip and recover like on the 72. I got thrown over the front of the board at great speed and it hurt!

I went back to the 72.

maiz

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2021, 10:31:09 PM »
Non-consensus perfection! Everyone has their comfort zones which informs me that Iíll only know by giving it a go for myself.

@Wingnut Ohana - want to sell me the 85?

Velasco

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2021, 12:24:41 AM »
On Armstrong:

I prone foil with a 72cm mast - even in bigger surf I don't breach.

I wing foil with the 85cm mast.  I normally ride with the foil close to the surface (its more exhilarating) and every now and then I would lose it (I believe its the rear stabilizer breaching through chop and not the front foil).  I found a 95cm mast on Craigslist and got a good deal on it.  Wing foiling with this 95cm mast allows me to ride at the same height above the surface I was with the 85cm - but the foil is another 4" underwater/chop.  I have never breached with this setup and I'm riding in waves and wind on Oahu.  I don't have a problem pumping any of these setup.

On Go Foil:

I prone the 24.5" mast + 3" track adaptor (for a total of 27.5").  In waves over chest high have breached this - and at times it has been frustrating. 

I wing with the 29.5" mast + 3" track adaptor (32.5") - and again I occasionally breach this setup (usually in choppier conditions).  I just got one of those aluminum 5" tuttle extensions, but haven't tried it out yet.  That would get me to 37.5" of mast.

One of the riders at my local break uses the 40" Go Foil mast - and he is still trying to get more height (he is a sponsored Go Foil rider).

Everyone has their own comfort zone - but if you are pushing your limits and find yourself  breaching - I would say get a taller mast.

VB_Foil

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Re: Mast length
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2021, 10:25:00 AM »
On Armstrong as well.  I ride the 72 prone and 85CM in most wing sessions. 

I'm now leaning towards my 100CM mast (thanks DW) whenever I get deep enough water.  I always pair it with a 50CM fuse to liven it up.  The 50 fuse allows quick altitude changes and tight turns.   It is basically impossible to breach and when you do, it's pretty exciting, as it's typically at the top of a giant swell or other critical circumstance.  When you recover from an almost breach going mach 10 down a swell line, that is also an epic feeling!   

I hear that there is a 93CM mast coming out from Armie.  That might be the ticket for a two mast quiver.  72 and 93. 
Iím a 5í9Ē 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4' 27L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4í5Ē 34L Armstrong FG Wing/Surf
   4'11" 60L Armstrong Wing/Sup
  
  

Foils: Armstrong HA525, HS625, HA725, HA925, HS1050, HA1125, HS1250, HA1325
Wings: BRM 2M & 3M, FreeWing Nitro 4M, OR 5M & 7M Glide

 


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