Author Topic: Trainer kite vs wing power?  (Read 993 times)

biggins

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Trainer kite vs wing power?
« on: January 15, 2020, 09:12:45 AM »
For all of you former kite foilers...

How do you think that the power of a 4m wing compares to say a 2m trainer kite on 30 meter lines? 

I’m thinking of putting on a 2400cm2 wing on a smaller kiteboard and trying it out...maybe a 3m/2m quiver. They are cheap, no pump, and indestructible...might be fun.

Thoughts? :)

PonoBill

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 11:30:40 AM »
Could work with long enough lines for power when getting up on the foil. Little kites dash around a lot, so I wouldn't want to do it, but you're not a slow-motion geezer. Let us know how it works out.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

obxDave

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 01:14:59 PM »
Hey, winging is great fun but no way will I become a “former” kite foiler! 

With that out of the way,  those little ram air trainers (I still have a 3m from my kiteboard instructing days) have plenty of punch but you have to down loop them right through the power zone to really tap it. We would sit on a sand beach and rip them through the power zone and get dragged along big time.  It’s an all or nothing power stroke and if you hit the water with your session will be over unless you get it relaunched quickly before it gets filled with water. We had more fun using them with skate boards with really low rolling resistance. We used them on the water with smaller (under 6’6”) surf boards but they were a pain compared to just using a small inflatable.

I could use my 5m inflatable kite with a 2400 sq cm foil in say 10 knots but it wouldn’t be much fun at all compared to using my 10m kite with my 1200 sq cm foil. The former would be slow and draggy, the latter fast and turny. No contest.  Hope that helps.

Interested to hear about the results either way :)

obxDave

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 03:02:43 AM »
Well ya got me curious so I pulled out the trainer kite. It’s an HQ Power kite 3.5 m Hydro, so not that small. 2009 vintage.  HQ designed it as a semi closed cell ram air kite (just two small intakes you see at the leading edge) so it wouldn’t fill with water “as quickly” if you crashed it into the water. They gave it name the name “hydro” thinking thinking people would play with it on a SUP/surf board. Nice idea but never really worked that well. Like I said, without four line sheeting power (sort of like pulling your back hand in with a wing) the only way to generate power with this thing is diving into the power zone. From just a minor bar pull to getting yanked hard in a split second😮. Definitely not boring.....

Mountain board showing up today for more winging variety. This would  probably work well with beach riding along with the wing....

« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 03:06:22 AM by obxDave »

Wetstuff

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 06:08:39 AM »
Bigs, My memories of those little guys were they were like squirrels on crack - fun to flip around but with very narrow powerbands.  I gather Snow kites and some other use-specific kites are far more manageable.  The big point (as I see it) the wing allows you to get rid of all the c'hit that comes with lines... 

I am frequently distracted by notions of how to do a work-around when I could have better spent the time learning something directly, so I understand. Press of if needed. Report back.

Jim
Atlantis Mistress .. Blue Planet MultiTasker ..   Atlantis Venom

biggins

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 07:05:14 AM »
@ponobill lol, not sure about slow motion but I’m definitely not 17 anymore. :)

@obx Yeah I remember the hydro. I tried one but decided that the two line blades had more power. Anyway, I’m thinking big foil and floaty board at first. I think that “spike “ of power is exactly what is needed to pop up on foil especially on a smaller board. But afterwards just let it sit at the edge with an occasional work and a downloop for transition. Maybe no harness and just one handed on toe side. 30m lines for extra power on the start. For relaunch I used to sit on my board and wind the line around the bar by rolling the bar. Then grab the bridles and launch, then just let the bar unwind with the wind and kite at zenith if that makes sense. It works well but better not to drop it. Smaller kites are much easier.

Sure would be nice to do winging and something like this for traveling also. You never know when you pop a bladder. Nice to have a plan Bravo.

Obx are you pilot/ATC?

@ wetstuff yeah, you’re probably right, but I like to try new things just for fun. Sometimes it’s nice to have a break from doing the same thing everyday. Who knows, I might like it. :)


Wetstuff

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 09:32:05 AM »
Bigs...  100%.  I'll get some bug in my azz and anticipated failure is no deterrent.  Just buy it cheaply. Cheers.

Jim
Atlantis Mistress .. Blue Planet MultiTasker ..   Atlantis Venom

sflinux

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Re: Trainer kite vs wing power?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 01:41:55 PM »
I am a kiter and a big fan of small kites.  The thing with small kites is the lines and bar have to be the appropriate length.  Often the lines and bar that comes with a small kite are too long.
For e.x. on my 5M inflatable delta kite, I use 18.5M lines and the bar is 17cm.
When I taught my two year old son to fly a 2M trainer kite, we used minimal length lines (maybe 10m), and about a 14 cm bar.
The smaller bar, prevents the kite from stalling in turns.  The shorter lines shrinks the wind window, which minimizes power spikes.
I would start with short lines, then gradually go longer.  With small kites, when underpowered, I loop the kite to waterstart, sometimes requiring three kiteloops. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 01:44:25 PM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"
Currently Riding: 7'4" x 29" x 4.5" 119L L41 TV Dinner

 


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