Author Topic: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job  (Read 4285 times)

red_tx

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red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« on: December 05, 2019, 11:03:03 AM »
I took the advice of beasho, jondrums, and others...steamroller etc that posted on another thread regarding cutting down tail wings.

Beasho and team keep me straight. I felt like I had to move my feet(and I cannot remember which way but they felt like they were both more forward and closer together from a stance standpoint(distance), if that makes sense.

Night and day difference between the stock legacy Maliko tail and the new version
-Reduced flat paddle drag (maybe in my head?)
-Increased YAW, PITCH and ROLL. Unbelievable 3D control, almost like mind control. "if you think left, you go left"
-Tail Slide - Like jondrums typed on the other thread, the tail slides like a skateboard tail slide across the coping.. if you push it, it will "break" loose and slide.
-Easier to get to FLYING from the takeoff
-Increased pumping.(%75 percent better) I, for the first time pumped half way back out on my huge standie. :)
-Faster once flying. I could not believe it, but I felt like it was even faster on the FLY due to less drag I imagine.

How I did it. (attempted to remove ~2 inches on both sides)
-tried to measure all these crazy lines on the wing !
-marked the cut lines
-bought a diamond cutting saw blade that sat on the sidelines as I could not find the little blade chuck that is supposed to be stuck in the saw. ( Dewalt 6 inch, cordless ) So I used the standard wood blade. It slightly shredded the tip on one side. (carbon fiber, shredding) You may be able to see in the picture.
-Sanded off the tips with some dirty ass sand paper.
-Pulled it all together and sealed the tips with some white trash glass.

She flew amazing and brought life to my M200 on tiny nothing piles of white. Absolutely ripping fun.

I absolutely recommend it and am considering cutting my other one seen in the images, down even smaller.

How narrow/small have you all seen them or flown them? (beasho,johndrums,steamroller)

http://gato.net/foil/bluetailhack/

happy cutting
-red

gzasinets

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2019, 11:11:40 AM »
Looks great - thanks for sharing. I will try kai rear next time with my m200 and see if I can handle it. I am a beginner.
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JEG

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2019, 01:01:49 PM »
Great report red_tx as I didn't what to do with my maliko as the new gl tail wing or wings are getting expensive.

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2019, 02:17:05 PM »
Dang, I must be doing something way wrong, because when I tried my Kai tail in the Iwa, and M200...I hated it on both of them.

I didn't at all get the feeling that it pumped better...in fact, I felt that I had no support or push back when I tried to pump it - even just to stay flying in a wave, much less pump it back out at all - and if felt that the tail would just sink and I'd pretty much just stall every time I tried to pump it.

As far as turning went, didn't notice any real difference other than the back end slide out, and when you're sliding you're not turning/carving so didn't like that feeling either...but then again I'm on an Angledfoil, so turning was never really a problem w/ the maliko tail to begin with.

Nice report though red...you've got me inspired and curious again, so maybe I'll give it another go, but this time maybe move the foil up a tad, or my feet, or possible both...heck idk. :-\
Me: 6'1"/185...6'0" Kings Foil Board...6'0" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

Piros

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2019, 03:28:49 PM »
Dang, I must be doing something way wrong, because when I tried my Kai tail in the Iwa, and M200...I hated it on both of them.

I didn't at all get the feeling that it pumped better...in fact, I felt that I had no support or push back when I tried to pump it - even just to stay flying in a wave, much less pump it back out at all - and if felt that the tail would just sink and I'd pretty much just stall every time I tried to pump it.


Less is best for speed and performance on a rear wing. The bigger they are is just drag , yes they give you more low speed lift but they actually hold you back on pumping with speed. The smaller rear wing actually gives you a shorter pumping arc which in turn lets you go faster. It's very easy to get used to a large rear wing for glide & stability but can make you a lazy foiler that's why you may not like the feel of a smaller rear. At first it takes a bit more energy to get everything happening with the smaller rear but when it does everything gets faster and more efficient , do that for awhile and get back on a larger rear wing again and it feels like you are towing a bucket. You just need to look at what the prone guys are using now for rears , they are just so tiny . This will filter back to the Sups. 
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SanoSlatchSup

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2019, 09:35:44 PM »
Dang, I must be doing something way wrong, because when I tried my Kai tail in the Iwa, and M200...I hated it on both of them.

I didn't at all get the feeling that it pumped better...in fact, I felt that I had no support or push back when I tried to pump it - even just to stay flying in a wave, much less pump it back out at all - and if felt that the tail would just sink and I'd pretty much just stall every time I tried to pump it.


Less is best for speed and performance on a rear wing. The bigger they are is just drag , yes they give you more low speed lift but they actually hold you back on pumping with speed. The smaller rear wing actually gives you a shorter pumping arc which in turn lets you go faster. It's very easy to get used to a large rear wing for glide & stability but can make you a lazy foiler that's why you may not like the feel of a smaller rear.
Thanks Piros...that's good advice, and I think you're spot on with the bold. I do find myself just kicking back, and just chillin' while flyin' a lot. I like to think of it as "soul foiling"...but I think "lazy foiling" is more like it. :-[ :)

Quote
At first it takes a bit more energy to get everything happening with the smaller rear but when it does everything gets faster and more efficient , do that for awhile and get back on a larger rear wing again and it feels like you are towing a bucket. You just need to look at what the prone guys are using now for rears , they are just so tiny . This will filter back to the Sups.
Cool, thanks again for the info...and I'm going to throw the Kai stab back on tmrw, and kick things in the butt to see if I can get it going like you guys are talking about.  8)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 09:41:59 PM by SanoSlatchSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...6'0" Kings Foil Board...6'0" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

JEG

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2019, 09:44:36 PM »
I started with kai and hated it so I moved to maliko and as I improved I went back to kai and like it but now I want more speed so the new gl tail will be my next move  ;D

jondrums

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2019, 09:56:35 PM »
Red, can you post up the total width of the new tail that you like?  I decided on 420mm (16.5in) and that worked out great for me. I guessed the number based on a photo posted by someone on another forum. I was going to experiment going even more narrow, but I never got around to it and now I've sold the maliko tail, so I'm out of the game.  But for others considering, it would be great to have a record of what worked for other people.

JEG

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2019, 01:11:17 PM »
I remember someone mod the kai and made it narrow cord.
red_tx your mod is almost like a kai size wing but with a wider cord and have you thought about making it narrow?

jondrums

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2019, 01:09:33 AM »
This is the original thread where I got the idea to cut the tips off the tail.  In the thread, Clamsmasher describes thinning out the chord and the thickness of the Maliko wing, and links some instagram photos of the modification.
https://forum.surfer.com/index.php?threads/rear-stabilisers-anyone-playing-around.217654/

red_tx

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2019, 12:40:56 PM »
Piros - interesting regarding your comment on the tail wing creating glide. If so I would imagine there is a point where the glide is negated by the drag.

I am starting to question importance of the rear tail as it pertains to flight. I am thinking now its only really helpful in takeoff/pump, and maybe some type of tail slide. Once you are on the wing(front) and you really know how to fly, do you even need the tail wing until you pump again? Do you even need it to pump? Doesn't just rocking the front wing up and down create the same pump (math, unweight fly up down weight gravity push down, create lift) action without the tail wing? maybe. BTW, I do understand aeronautics a bit as I went ape shit on RC aircraft in a previous life. A plane without a tail (Zaggi) flies just fine with elavons. (elevator/aleron combo). Since we do not have control surfaces that move on the hydrofoils(yet) I question the use of the tail wing other than pumping. (which is crucial).

I saw a thread somewhere, where dude had a single wing.

JEG: I would consider a narrower chord but I am unsure how to cut it. Hesitant to sand it that much. Thoughts? I would continue to cut the modified one and then shorten my stock blue wing.

jondrums: I updated the link of photos with measurements for both sides of the pond.



Outstanding question:
Does a smaller rear wing result in foot placement change? Possibly moving more in front of the mast with rear foot and front foot closer to mast.? Maybe its in my head?

-red
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 12:51:09 PM by red_tx »

Beasho

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 08:11:54 AM »
I am starting to question importance of the rear tail as it pertains to flight. I am thinking now its only really helpful in takeoff/pump, and maybe some type of tail slide. Once you are on the wing(front) and you really know how to fly, do you even need the tail wing until you pump again? Do you even need it to pump? Doesn't just rocking the front wing up and down create the same pump (math, unweight fly up down weight gravity push down, create lift) action without the tail wing? maybe. BTW, I do understand aeronautics a bit as I went ape shit on RC aircraft in a previous life. A plane without a tail (Zaggi) flies just fine with elavons. (elevator/aleron combo). Since we do not have control surfaces that move on the hydrofoils(yet) I question the use of the tail wing other than pumping. (which is crucial).
. . . .
Does a smaller rear wing result in foot placement change? Possibly moving more in front of the mast with rear foot and front foot closer to mast.? Maybe its in my head?

Keep on Testing!

My daughter went Berzerk on me 2 summers ago when I asked her to drag me behind the boat without the tail on my Foil.  BUT IT WORKED.

Yes - Your feet have to move backwards.  You can see my front foot on TOP of the handle of the board ~ 8 Inches back from the normal front strap position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpTwOYx0Lho

red_tx

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 09:09:31 AM »

Keep on Testing!

My daughter went Berzerk on me 2 summers ago when I asked her to drag me behind the boat without the tail on my Foil.  BUT IT WORKED.

Yes - Your feet have to move backwards.  You can see my front foot on TOP of the handle of the board ~ 8 Inches back from the normal front strap position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpTwOYx0Lho

I knew you would know something here. I remember you posting this video also. Thanks!

Where you able to pump the wing alone? w/o tail.

Another thing I noticed was that the legacy tails have all the camber on the bottom of the wing, while the front wing is on top. I saw someone type something about how they counter balance each other. Meaning front wing creates lift up and tail wing creates lift down(puke burp). Does not seem efficient, and is simply a result of folks trying to get hydrofoiling on a surfboard figured out.

I say let the front wing produce all the lift it wants(lift is only up from the wings standpoint, if the wing is pitched down towards the bottom of the ocean, its still producing lift with enough speed... rider controls pitch, keeping wing pointed in a manner that wont let it breach.

I am thinking now the tail wing, in an ideal situation, would be as small and as flat(no camber) as you can get it without jeopardizing pump.  Clearly the front wing will fly the entire setup alone as your video proves.

I am going to keep cutting down the ugly one. I cant wait to see how she feels on the IWA. (IWA being my favorite faster more maneuverable wing)

-red

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2019, 08:43:32 AM »
Well, spent two days playing w/ the Iwa/Kai setup....and y'all were right...SO MUCH FUN when you just kicked it in the butt a little bit!!

Don't know if others experienced it, but to me it seemed that the more I stood in the gas, the more secure and locked in it felt, and the more you could push the turns. It also seemed as though the possibility of breaching was much reduced, as I could actually start to feel it happen before it actually did.

That's not too say I didn't breach it, but just that once I kinda knew where that threshold was...I seem to remember only going over the handlebars when I was just trying to see how fast I could get things going, and wasn't in a position/stance properly to react quick enough to get the thing back down once I heard the noise and felt the wiggle.

Sooo, since I had so much fun w/ the Kai stab, and when a good friend made me a killer deal in an GL18N stab (he switched to Armstrong foils...lucky guy!) that I'm throwing that on today, and seeing how that goes!!

New stoke for surzies!! ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 08:46:08 AM by SanoSlatchSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...6'0" Kings Foil Board...6'0" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

fatfish

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Re: red's Go Foil Blue Tail Hack Job
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 09:31:09 AM »
I think that new stab is going to add another gear to the machine.  Give us a report later.

 


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