Author Topic: The Slingshot High Roller Project  (Read 22897 times)

PonoBill

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2019, 03:02:26 PM »
If you spent a big chunk of your life windsurfing in the gorge then waterstarting is the first thing you learned. Not an option. Uphauling is a low success rate thing here that pretty much only works for the super-talented with balance like a cat. When I hear about people standing up on their board and then pulling their wing up I feel a little jealous. There no way I can do that, even on Mr. Fugly.  I plan to get by with knee starting and I'm kind of doomed to bigger boards, but our goto spot for wingsurfing is Swell City. 35 mph gusting to 45 with head high ultra-short wind swell is more or less standard all summer. If I thought I could pull it off I'd be finding a board I could sink without it trying to get away. The little board isn't some kind of double reverse penis envy thing. That's going to be what it takes to waterstart reliably.

If you can waterstart reliably anywhere you'll be able to attempt more difficult stuff, if you can't you'll be wondering "can I get back up again" every time you try something.

I think locals would agree this a moderate gorge day, and it's at the Hatchery, which is generally a bit less nutty than Swell City. And it's a fun video of the master.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 03:06:58 PM by PonoBill »
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JEG

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2019, 04:13:07 PM »
Dave is on another level in that dw vid and great control on that iwa wing.

Admin

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2019, 11:37:22 PM »
So I rode the 5í1 today with the 5m. Wind was a sketchy 10-17 for trying the little board.

The only real challenge with the board, is the balance climbing on it, then dealing with the balance of something so short and sunk 4 to 5 inches underwater. The nose can go down and you fall off the front, or the side rolls, and you fall off the side. You need about 2 seconds of balance on it to grab the wing and get to the handles. Once youíve got the handles, everything becomes easy. Getting to my feet is only slightly harder due to the short length.

Once standing, youíre set. It pops onto to foil with one flick of the wrist. Just amazing how quick and drag free it feels. I can even switch feet skimming the water without fear of falling.

Itís probably best for 4.2m conditions or steady 5m wind. Itís likely to be the board Jacky uses everyday in any wind. I guess I need to hurry and make her one.

That all sounds good, Dwight.  It is pretty amazing how things stabilize when you get your hands on the handles.  Post up some pics of the board!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 05:11:38 AM by Admin »

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2019, 05:24:15 AM »
If you can waterstart reliably anywhere you'll be able to attempt more difficult stuff, if you can't you'll be wondering "can I get back up again" every time you try something.

That right there is what will keep our first season beginner stoke going for years.  We have all of this stuff in front of us.  It doesn't matter if it is your first kneestart, a jibe, a waterstart or a loop.  If you have something ahead of you that you are super interested in learning the enjoyment level stays at 10.  We did the windsurfing freestyle competitions here and Maui for years. In themselves they were all right (short heats with a lot of waiting) but they were awesome for keeping the stoke up. There was always a hard new move to work on.  I am happy to have that back.

Caribsurf

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2019, 06:42:14 AM »
What are the benefits of riding a shorter foil board?   Since the goal is to lift out of the water and ride the foil, does the board size matter? If a larger board makes it easier to get going etc, why make it any harder for yourself with a small board?
Just curious....
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Admin

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2019, 08:04:39 AM »
Since the goal is to lift out of the water and ride the foil, does the board size matter? If a larger board makes it easier to get going etc, why make it any harder for yourself with a small board?
Just curious....

Good Q.  I posted this snip below earlier in the thread.  I would turn your question around.  Since your goal will be to spend all of your session on the foil, why would you choose to carry around the extra 10, 15, lbs. and all of the extra bulk? It will take plenty of flailing and some gear experimentation, but the benefit seems enormous.  I would also add that I think that eventually it will be a way more efficient start in many conditions...and that it looks fun!

The new board is over 11 lbs lighter.  It weighs 7.4 lbs (edited for the 4'6) and has almost no weight in the nose. I love that idea!  Even on Chan's 5'10 the shorter, lighter weight nose feels awesome.  Winging around with near zero excess is the primary goal.  Once you are flying the board is just baggage.  It gets blown around, interferes with the water and in part it controls you.  The more of that we can take away the greater the soaring experience.  It is also 11 lbs that your foil and your wing don't need to lift (6% less total payload in my case).  That is a cheap diet.  It is less pull on your leash.  It tucks under my arm with room to spare.  No need for a handle.  No goofy carry style.  Board goes under the upwind arm with the foil facing into the wind, wing goes in the downwind hand.  Simplicity.  Carry the board nose first, it doesn't matter anymore.  It can fit in the back of any car.  It fits in the passenger front seat of our Subaru.  That is how it came home from the shop as the back was full.   It will travel anywhere super easily.  Go to town with the bubble wrap in a shortboard case and check it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 08:23:46 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2019, 08:12:05 AM »
What are the benefits of riding a shorter foil board?   Since the goal is to lift out of the water and ride the foil, does the board size matter? If a larger board makes it easier to get going etc, why make it any harder for yourself with a small board?
Just curious....

Much easier to turn, much easier to pump. A nose hanging out even just a few feet ahead of your front foot is a big pendulum that you have to work to reverse. Every inch shorter makes a difference. You'd think wider wouldn't matter but narrow helps a lot too. Mr. Fugly was a great board for me to start on at 7'2"X33" but Little Fugly at 6"10 and about 30" wide is much easier to get up on foil, pump, turn, and can splash down and pop right back up where Mr. fugly might stick, though it has a nasty tendency to sink the nose out of sight when I'm standing on it. Not enough nose volume. The locals here think little Fugly is huge. Mr. Fugly is a battleship.

I think I can go a bit shorter and narrower for wingfoiling since the wing helps stability immensely once it's flying and I don't need to stand and paddle, I just need to kneel without the nose disappearing. Volume distribution will help with that.

That's all fine for me and probably as far as I go, but if you want to truly waterstart you need a board volume and distribution that you can sink easily without having it try to squirt away.

And then the first time you see what prone foilers get to do with a wave on a board in the sub 5' and even sub 4' range you get a big shot of FOMO. They can turn on a dime and give you nine cents change, and they pump merrily back out a distance that would send me straight to the ER. They turn and pump better right from the first time they get up on foil. I know a prone foiler who weighs more than me who ripped better with a week of experience than most SUP foilers with a year or more under their belt. Yeah, sure, he was a good shortboarder before he started foiling, but he's a GREAT foiler. When he carries the silly little thing his board almost disappears under his arm.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 08:16:09 AM by PonoBill »
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2019, 12:31:29 PM »



5í1 x 25

So today, Jacky was foiling with her 5í8 and 3.5m Swing in the harness, then the wind died. So thatís when I decided it would be ideal to test the 5í1 on her, to see if it could be her everyday all around board. I handed her the 4.2m Swing and sent her out to sink or swim. She knee started and popped onto to foil with no effort. After her jibe, she fell and failed a knee start in the light wind. She put her hands on the deck and just stood up. Rode back no problem. She felt it flies automatically and claimed it as her board. Short and corky auto flies.

flkiter

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2019, 01:24:43 PM »
Looks awesome DW, hope to get up your way next week to give it a try. Good to hear Jacky is back on the water.

Caribsurf

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2019, 02:40:27 PM »
Since the goal is to lift out of the water and ride the foil, does the board size matter? If a larger board makes it easier to get going etc, why make it any harder for yourself with a small board?
Just curious....

Good Q.  I posted this snip below earlier in the thread.  I would turn your question around.  Since your goal will be to spend all of your session on the foil, why would you choose to carry around the extra 10, 15, lbs. and all of the extra bulk? It will take plenty of flailing and some gear experimentation, but the benefit seems enormous.  I would also add that I think that eventually it will be a way more efficient start in many conditions...and that it looks fun!

The new board is over 11 lbs lighter.  It weighs 7.4 lbs (edited for the 4'6) and has almost no weight in the nose. I love that idea!  Even on Chan's 5'10 the shorter, lighter weight nose feels awesome.  Winging around with near zero excess is the primary goal.  Once you are flying the board is just baggage.  It gets blown around, interferes with the water and in part it controls you.  The more of that we can take away the greater the soaring experience.  It is also 11 lbs that your foil and your wing don't need to lift (6% less total payload in my case).  That is a cheap diet.  It is less pull on your leash.  It tucks under my arm with room to spare.  No need for a handle.  No goofy carry style.  Board goes under the upwind arm with the foil facing into the wind, wing goes in the downwind hand.  Simplicity.  Carry the board nose first, it doesn't matter anymore.  It can fit in the back of any car.  It fits in the passenger front seat of our Subaru.  That is how it came home from the shop as the back was full.   It will travel anywhere super easily.  Go to town with the bubble wrap in a shortboard case and check it.

Ok Admin that does make sense and once I learn this sport ( 1st foil session behind jet ski on Tuesday) I will probably realize the same. My windsurfers are mostly sinkers so Iíll probably be bumping down from my 115 liter Fanatic SKY in time
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Admin

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2019, 12:59:24 AM »
Yesterday was fun.  It was a balmy 53 degrees and it was 23 to 30 MPH.  This was a "normal" direction West wind.  The water is still 51 so all was good in the world.  I started on my 6'6 and the 3.5 Swing with the Axis 920 wing.  That felt great.  There were some holes but the 920 was cruising through them like they weren't there.  I love that wing.  I wanted to check out how our 900 wing would do in the same condition so I changed it out.  I had only used that one once before.  My "test" didn't work out that well because the wind filled in and picked up a little so it was really steady by the time I launched again.  Still, that 900 is awesome too.  It got right up in that wind and stayed going like a champ.  I don't know what its range is yet but it was amazing in that good wind. 

I used my big board for a great little session and then came in for some abuse.  I set up the 4'2 32 L with the 920 foil and headed back out.  The spot I was at is actually perfect for learning this because there is another out 500 feet downwind and there is a sidewalk back to the start which I am calling the shamewalk.  The smaller foil helped a lot.  The wind was a little off shore so I straddled, flew the wing and butt cruised (sorry Bill) out the windline.  No getting dumped off the back like on the 1020.  This isn't pretty but it is an easy way to get home in a pinch.  The little board pushes down much more easily than the 39 Liter.  It is probably still a bit more volume than I need.  I can see why the kids are looking for 25-29 L.  That seems like it might make things super relaxed and still allow the board to surface well.  This one will go under with a hard push but it wants to immediately fight back, even under full weight.  I had to adjust my push point way forward and get my stance further forward than expected to get on the balance point.  Even so, if it would come off center even a little on any axis, I could feel it start to go and there was no English that was going to stop it.  Once it did, it would explode out of the water.  So, for most of my half hour drift it would have looked like I was doing launch tests (on myself).  Towards the end of my drift I was able to get squatting, reel in the wing and get to the handle but the explosion still came before I had the strut handles.  In short, I need to find another few seconds.  Next I am going to try again with the 900 foil (which has a little less float).  One thing I can say is that this could be an epic workout regimen.  I was toast when I got home :)




VB_Foil

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2019, 11:42:15 AM »
Admin, have you tried using the floating wing as a balance point when getting situated?  Like putting a hand on top of the leading edge. That way the leading edge handle is right there and no reeling is required.

Admin

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2019, 01:28:28 PM »
Admin, have you tried using the floating wing as a balance point when getting situated?  Like putting a hand on top of the leading edge. That way the leading edge handle is right there and no reeling is required.

I couldn't work that out because I have to use both hands on the board's rails to force it underwater. I am not sure how that would work with the float of the leading edge.  Possibly I am missing something?  I am going to borrow one of the Dwarfcraft 4'6  boards.  That is 25 liters and looks like it has very even volume placement which seems like it will help as well.  Too small will be hard to get back to the surface but it will be nice to know the low limit.

Admin

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Re: The Slingshot High Roller Project
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2019, 02:53:25 AM »
but if you want to truly waterstart you need a board volume and distribution that you can sink easily without having it try to squirt away.

That is exactly what I am feeling.  I just saw this over at Seabreeze.  Designed for prone but these volumes are matching up to what I am feeling. Our purposes are different but I am thinking that what they are labeling as an expert prone board range may be a very good reference for easy sinkability and control underwater.  That would put me at 23 to 27 liters and Chan at 16 to 19 liters.  32 Liters is feeling too corky but not by much.  39 was impossible for me.  My shortboard surfboards were right around 29 liters and that worked well for sink and stand but I was 10 lbs heavier then.  I think that might be the range.  Stoked to try this out next week.


« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 03:07:22 AM by Admin »