Author Topic: Wing pump alternative  (Read 52899 times)

Fishman

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2019, 04:30:44 PM »
My back really likes the idea foot pump. The description on that foot pump only has it as a "2 psi".

Are you guys getting enough pressure out of this pump or topping off with other pump?
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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2019, 05:10:51 PM »
My back really likes the idea foot pump. The description on that foot pump only has it as a "2 psi".

Are you guys getting enough pressure out of this pump or topping off with other pump?

Watch the video above. with the foot pump I'm able to pump it beyond what he called the "beginner" pressure
but not as much as the top performance. But since I am at the stage where I'm doing "Airs" and by that I mean flying off the board right into the water head first :D these settings are perfect for me.
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PonoBill

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2019, 06:35:58 PM »
My wing went soft today after the first crash. I pumped it to 7psi (Admin is insisting 10 is better--he's a little nuts). What I didn't consider is cold water. Did I perhaps lose two pounds while I was flopping around getting my shit together? (yes, yardsale. If you're gonna do it, don't hold back).  72-degree air temperature, 50-degree water. Assume all the air in the bladder gets cooled to final pressure and temperature has to be in absolute units (Kelvin for fahrenheit).  Pf = Pi(Ti/Tf)  so Pf = 7 (283.15/295.20) = 6.7  Okay, maybe not.
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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2019, 06:53:00 PM »
My wing went soft today after the first crash. I pumped it to 7psi (Admin is insisting 10 is better--he's a little nuts). What I didn't consider is cold water. Did I perhaps lose two pounds while I was flopping around getting my shit together? (yes, yardsale. If you're gonna do it, don't hold back).  72-degree air temperature, 50-degree water. Assume all the air in the bladder gets cooled to final pressure and temperature has to be in absolute units (Kelvin for fahrenheit).  Pf = Pi(Ti/Tf)  so Pf = 7 (283.15/295.20) = 6.7  Okay, maybe not.

You might be overthinking it. Unless you're using your wing as a pool noodle, what you're describing sounds unlikely.
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 03:26:57 AM »
My wing went soft today after the first crash. I pumped it to 7psi (Admin is insisting 10 is better--he's a little nuts). What I didn't consider is cold water. Did I perhaps lose two pounds while I was flopping around getting my shit together? (yes, yardsale. If you're gonna do it, don't hold back).  72-degree air temperature, 50-degree water. Assume all the air in the bladder gets cooled to final pressure and temperature has to be in absolute units (Kelvin for fahrenheit).  Pf = Pi(Ti/Tf)  so Pf = 7 (283.15/295.20) = 6.7  Okay, maybe not.

Same cold water thing happened to me many times in the early years of kiting, when we were all kooks afraid to pump our kites too hard, because frankly, manufacturers didnít yet know how strong to build kites.

Iím still surprised some brands recommend 6 psi, while Naish has moved on to some super sewing thread and recommends much higher pressures.

When replacement wings are easy to get, I might follow Admin.

Also forget the foot pump. No kiters use them. There is a reason. Get a kite pump, or go electric if lazy. Iíve been using the same electric pump for 5 years. Replaced the battery once. One charge lasts me a month.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 03:38:17 AM by Dwight (DW) »

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2019, 05:38:59 AM »
Iím still surprised some brands recommend 6 psi, while Naish has moved on to some super sewing thread and recommends much higher pressures.

It's reassuring to know that some brands are recommending 6psi. Maybe they know something we don't.
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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2019, 11:52:18 AM »
My buddies 7m Gong exploded sitting on the beach with 8 psi Today.....beware Admin

His electric pump is set to shutoff at 8.

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2019, 02:13:56 PM »
After Dwight posted: "Also forget the foot pump. No kiters use them. There is a reason."   I thought I should revisit my test.

This time:  100 stomps in ~2 minutes did a lot better.  That number of stomps was simply about all the foot pump would give me before fully resisting.  I am sure there is a cylinder/volume equation there somewhere, but I did not school well.

It was clearly stiffer but did not pass the 'cannot fold it' test mentioned in Maramenides' video, but did pass the Gong test performed by Dwight's friend.  No wind for a few days...


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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2019, 06:06:38 AM »
I got an inside tip on the pressure.  Unlike the new kites where rock hard is the standard, these large leading edges do not need as much to hold shape - 5.5 - 7psi is sufficient.

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2019, 06:23:58 AM »
My buddies 7m Gong exploded sitting on the beach with 8 psi Today.....beware Admin

His electric pump is set to shutoff at 8.

Hah!   I am not advocating it for anyone else but it would be hard to go back.  :)  When we had our SPG's and Duotone, I could see and feel the wings flex off power during pumping.  It is a sad feeling.  When really hard they don't do that.  They feel crisp and super responsive.  At the very least know the MFG suggestion for each size because it can vary from 6-10 psi.  I completely understand the hot air expansion concern.  Black leading edges always seemed silly too me.  We do have the advantage over kites of no 60 foot slams and our gear is typically nicely water cooled (or maybe that is just me :) ).

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2019, 06:30:12 AM »
I got an inside tip on the pressure.  Unlike the new kites where rock hard is the standard, these large leading edges do not need as much to hold shape - 5.5 - 7psi is sufficient.

Jim

F-One suggests 6 for the largest wings and ranging up to 10 for the smallest.  Those would be conservative numbers if anything as they are going to get the warranty questions.  I can tell you for sure that none of these wings hold shape even under arm pumping load as well as a rock hard wing.   The difference is substantial.

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Re: Wing pump alternative
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2019, 10:19:46 AM »
My buddies 7m Gong exploded sitting on the beach with 8 psi Today.....beware Admin

His electric pump is set to shutoff at 8.

Did my own little test with the foot Pump. 76 full range stomps, 1 minute.
Connected the gauge and pressure was between 7 to 8 PSI.

Could not fold the leading edge at that pressure, just a little dent at a very specific pressure point is just about the  max. Wasn't able to replicate that under wind conditions I'm flying it up to 20knots so I'm comfortable saying it should be sufficient to most people under normal conditions.

There are always some freaks who want to milk every ounce of performance, even at the risk of damaging their equipment (I should know as I'm one of those). If you are a frequent flyer, meaning diving in on your wing often, I think this risk is real and I just don't feel like taking an $800 bet every time I feel adventurous.
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