Author Topic: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread  (Read 1169 times)

surfcowboy

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The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« on: October 06, 2019, 02:52:59 PM »
Ok to gather some info in one place (I have no horse in this race, I just love organized data) I propose putting you stats for minimum and comfortable wind ranges for tour size and rig as a way for folks to easily start to calculate flight info.

Example, clay said that on his 7 m kite wing at 200 lbs and 1700 foil wing he couldnt foil at 15 mph but 20 mph wains worked.

At 15mph on a 2400 foil it worked with some effort.

If this seems helpful, post up.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2019, 03:21:40 PM »
Skills....I went from feeling I needed a 7m, to not needing one. Skills improve so much once you get it.

I still have a buddy who struggles in 20 with a 7m. I know that will change when he gets better.

It really is all technique. Early on, you need power to learn the technique

« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 03:23:32 PM by Dwight (DW) »

supkailua

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2019, 03:24:18 PM »
I need a 15 to 16 mph gust (13 mph average) to get going using a F-ONE Swing 5. I am 160 lbs and I use the Slingshot Infinity 84 foil which has a 2,066 cm surface area.

I am still improving my pumping so I might be able to get that down another 1 mph as my technique improves.

PonoBill

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2019, 07:43:45 PM »
I've been too lazy to switch foils lately, I'm sure I could get up in lighter wind if I went back to the 280 GoFoil, but the 1080 Axis is addictive.

My range is:
3M 30 with gusts higher
4M 20 to 30 or higher if it's not gusty
5M 15 to 25. At 15 I need gusts to get up.
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surfcowboy

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2019, 12:24:39 AM »
DW Im curious as to your current wind stats on the 5m

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2019, 03:38:19 AM »
I am 170 lbs.

Swing 5.0 and Axis 1020 (which is 2051 sq. cm.)  This is my no whitecaps or just a few whitecaps starting to form rig.  10 to 15 MPH is the core lower range  It is able to pump through lighter lulls.  Over 20 it is getting too wild.  I would add 2 MPH to that minimum range with the Axis 1000.  That foil lifts shockingly well for 1388 sq cm. but it is still not the low end monster that the 1020 is. 

Swing 4.2 - This is my steady but little whitecaps rig.  I use this wing in place of the 5's that I have used from other brands.  If the average is near 15 MPH and it is ranging 14-20ish this is great. 

Swing 3.5 - If I show up to 18 MPH average I would choose the 3.5.  This wing still feels considerably bigger than most brands 4's so that is more of the comparison that I would make.  It is easy to mistakenly think of this like another brand's 3 meter but it is nothing like that.  We don't have the 2.8 or 2.2 yet but I have been begging F-one because we need both.  :)

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 04:12:47 AM »
DW Im curious as to your current wind stats on the 5m

187 lbs with 1020 foil. If there are wind gusts to 12 mph at (least 50 feet wide) then its worth my effort to pump onto foil. Once up, I can fly along all day in the 9-10 mph wind that goes along with gusts to 12. Need more for the 1000 wing.

Wind gust into the low 20s are OK, as long as they are short lived.

This is general riding back and forth, not down winding. I can handle more, and need more for down winding.

GL

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2019, 04:11:51 AM »
Yesterday I took a wind reading with a hand held wind meter. It was less wind than I thought. It was 13 to 14 knots gusting to 16 or 17.  I had no problem getting up on the foil at any time. I am 175 pounds using the Infinity 99 foil (area of 2371) and a 4.2 Slingwing. When I started I would have had no chance in that wind. Near the start of the session it was gusting into the mid 20's for a short time.  Still easy but harder on the arms. Since I got the Infinity 99 foil I have been surprised how slow I can go and stay on foil then bear off a bit and pick up speed. I am very pleased with it. Next season I would like  a larger wing, something in the 6 meter range for lighter wind.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 04:20:32 AM by GL »

GL

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 04:17:46 AM »
Yesterday I took a wind reading with a hand held wind meter. It was less wind than I thought. It was 13 to 14 knots gusting to 16 or 17.  I had no problem getting up on the foil at any time. I am 175 pounds using the Infinity 99 foil (area of 2371) and a 4.2 Slingwing. When I started I would have had no chance in that wind. Near the start of the session it was gusting into the mid 20's for a short time.  Still easy but harder on the arms. Since I got the Infinity 99 foil I have been surprised how slow I can go and stay on foil then bear off a bit and pick up speed. I am very pleased with it. Next season I would like  a larger wing, something in the 6 meter range for lighter wind.

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2019, 08:39:17 AM »
Anyone have any good numbers on the GF Maliko 200's surface area? I ask because I've seen 2000 cm2, 1922 cm2, and 1290 cm2...and a world of difference wrt to the discussion at hand.

IOWs, where does the M200 fit into all of this...or do I have to resign myself to the fact that I need a different wing before I can expect to make any of this happen in the typical <15mph winds we get in our area ("strong winds" predicted for Thur at 12mph if you catch my drift... ::))?

Edit: Guess I should throw in the other two variables... 7m Gong wing and 185-187lb rider.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 09:07:12 AM by SanoSlatchSup »
Me: 6'1"/200...6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2019, 09:03:55 AM »
This is the chart from MacKite.  They have it at 1922 but I don't think that tells the whole story.  I spent a ton of time struggling on that wing and I think that I would still be mostly surface bound if I were still on it.  I have much smaller wings now that are way easier (for me) to wing on.  In fact, all of our current wings are easier (down to the Axis 900 which is 1277).

To me the M200 is draggy feeling when surface bound.  It wants to lift but when it does it is abrupt and difficult to settle.  When it was flying I found that it always felt inclined to fall off of a foil.  I tried it in many positions on many boards with both stabilizers and no love.

I am not sure if the chart below has "Projected" or "Actual" dimensions.  They say surface area which sounds like actual but I am not certain.


« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 09:13:02 AM by Admin »

clay

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Re: The 4 Ws - Windspeed, Wing size, Weight, foil Wing size thread
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2019, 09:04:24 AM »
Yesterday was the most varied all over the place wind I've windinged in ( see photo of graph), even mid flight it seemed to be continuously pulsing up and down and shifting direction.

What I found regarding low end wind speed is the high end gust is the crucial number.  I'm 200 pounds and when a gust hit I got up on a 4m naish, a 5m swing and a 7m gong.  The 4m took some work, the 5m a bit less, and the 7m I could just hang on and board speed would get me up.  When the wind dropped I would fall off the 4m right away, the 5m I could pump and work for some distance, and the 7m go as far as I choose.

I was on a 2400 foil in smooth protected offshore water.  The smooth water made pumping and getting board speed up a lot easier.  And when the lull hit flat water pumping was way easier than navigating up and over windswell.
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