Need to downsize for waves- focus on volume or length?

[ncdylan]

I've been happy on a 10'2" 205 liter hybrid board as i've learned the sport. I love the stability and i catch alot of waves (knee to waist so far) Now I'm ready to try something smaller. Should I focus on less volume (say 10'4", 170 liters) or less length (say 9'6", 170 liters)
Note- I tried a 9 foot, 148 liter board and the struggle was real. I can't go that small. Thanks in advance!

[TallDude]

Welcome to the Zone. Don't believe everything read here
What is your weight? I get the sizing down, but not too much. No fun when you are struggling constantly. On the other hand, in order to get better, you have to move a little out of your comfort zone. You mentioned Liters and length, but nothing about width, which plays a big part in the equation. Shorter boards are going to turn quicker and require more strokes to catch a wave. Or even more complicated, you have to know exactly where to sit further inside (closer to where the wave is breaking) so you're starting off with steeper/ faster takeoff's with little to no strokes.

[exiled]

How big are you and what kind of waves are you hoping to ride?

[Badger]

Width is just as important as length when considering stability.

Volume can be calculated with your weight and ability.  https://www.kingspaddlesports.com/pages/boardvolume

[ncdylan]

Thank you Badger, Exiled and Talldude for your help. Ya'll rock. I weigh 180, 6 foot tall. I will not be surfing anything bigger than shoulder high for the near future. My current board is 32" wide (older NSP cocomat cruise). I am a weekend warrior so I tend to go out on windy days up to 15 mph so stability is key,  Ultimately that's why I gave up on the 148 liter board- struggled in the chop. I chalked my struggles up to TOO MUCH downsizing. (went from 205 to 148 liters)  I see your point though, patience is key. I am thinking shorter and fat, say 9ft. x 33" x 4.5"  160 liters.

[burchas]

One thing wasn't mentioned here is the design attributes of the board. I went down from a 10x31 @149L to an 8x31.5 @ 128L. Balancing on this board is not an issue for me, even on really windy/choppy days but I also have a 8.6x32 @ 125L which I find harder to balance on choppy days. I'm also able to paddle straighter on the shorter board.

Point is, width is very important but that's not the entire story, I found that boards with wide point forward are much more stable for me and also certain rail shapes makes big difference. For some people key to stability is a flat deck vs a domed deck.

As mentioned by TallDude, the real struggle was positioning on the wave and timing. on the 10 footer I could catch a fart ripple by a passing Dolphin, on the 8 I'll need a good tail wag by a whale.

I would strongly suggest demoing before buying.

[supsean]

How long did you try the 148 liter board for?  I went from 187 BIC hybrid to 145 or so (fanatic allwave 8'9") and I struggled for at least 10 sessions, especially in the chop. But it was worth it to me to battle the frustration. The payout was better turns and performance on the wave. You can start out taking the long one in the chop, and the shorter one when its cleaner. JimK hooked me up with a good deal on that Allwave, so you can contact him. 

One thing I found about smaller boards, is that you really have the right spot to stand on them, and stick to it, and then its not so bad. Keep your feet fairly close together, especially in the chop. And do some balance exercises when you aren't surfing.

[anonsurfer]

I've been happy on a 10'2" 205 liter hybrid board as i've learned the sport. I love the stability and i catch alot of waves (knee to waist so far) Now I'm ready to try something smaller. Should I focus on less volume (say 10'4", 170 liters) or less length (say 9'6", 170 liters)
Note- I tried a 9 foot, 148 liter board and the struggle was real. I can't go that small. Thanks in advance!

It sounds like you are ready to move down in Guild Factor (GF = L/KG).  At 180lb (82kg) on a 205L board you are currently at a GF of 2.5.   Maybe shoot for a GF of 2.0-2.1 (164L-172L) on your next board.  As you move down in GF you will get better performance.  You will notice a significant jump in performance below a GF of 1.3.

As you move down in volume try to go narrower and thinner as you go shorter.   Go down at a rate you are comfortable with.  You want to go small enough that it is a challenge for the first 5 sessions or so but not so small you are falling off all the time and not having fun. 

I remember the first time I tried a board that was a big drop in GF (From 2.3 to 1.5).  It was so hard but once I caught a wave I was hooked.   

[ncdylan]

Thanks for the info. I'll shoot for something in the GF 2.0 range and be patient and keep banging away with whatever I get. Your comments give me the assurance that it is do-able. This is a killer forum.

[sflinux]

Hi,
What was the 9' 148L board that you tried like?  (Full nose?, Width?).
I have been downsizing boards (6'2" 200#).  Each downsize was a struggle, that required practice.  I started on a 11' x 31.5" 191L (gf=2) which was too big for the surf.  Then I went to a 11' x 29.125" 154L (gf=1.67) board.  The next board was a 9'6" x 30" 138L (gf=1.46).  Going down from here was a struggle for me in terms of balance.  I too go out when time permits, rather than ideal conditions.  What I started doing was on my non surf days, taking boards out and practicing.  Once I went down to smaller boards, I found that my paddle technique was my crutch.  Learning when and how to use the paddle was what allowed to move to the next level.  Practicing on small boards in choppy conditions is good practice.  My smallest boards are a 8'5" x 29.5" 120L (gf=1.29) and 7'4" x 29" 119L (gf=1.28).
After doing months and months of practice, summer calmer conditions finally allowed to start riding smaller boards in the surf.  I just recently graduated to a  8'11" x 30" 129L (gf=1.39) and 8' x 30.5" 129L (gf=1.39) (both full nose, still falling but an acceptable wave count).
But backing up, my surfing really improved once I went to a thicker width and longer length.  My boards were 29"-30" in width at the time, 9'-11' in length.  I got a 10'11" X 32" 170L (gf=1.83) [now my winter board] and found that I stopped falling.  This was a game changer for me, which really boosted my confidence and gave me more practice wave riding with an incredible wave count.  I had tried a 12'6" x 30.25" 251L (gf=2.7) board but still struggled with stability (more length and more volume does not mean more stable).  Then I moved to a 10'6" x 29.5" 145L (gf=1.58) once my paddle technique improved (still falling but having tons of fun).
The other thing that helped, other than paddle technque, was foot work.  Foot work I learned by practicing on a smaller board.  Once you go small, the normal parallel stance no longer works, which becomes more of a diagonal stance, and your front foot moves to the centerline of the board once you are trying to catch it. 
Another thing that helped was shortening my paddle.  It seemed like I was too tall with a longer paddle, shortening help me have a lower center of gravity (in chop).  I have a bad shoulder, so the shorter paddle was beneficial.  Learn the hinge technique.  In addition to shortening the paddle, using a smaller blade helped me too.  This required me to increase my cadence, and has less torque which seemed to help for balance.
I would keep the length of 10' (don't go shorter, but 10'6" is a fun length too), and keep the 32" width (don't go narrower than 31"), and find something that is less thick.  I would think that you should be able to go down to a guild factor of 1.8 (148L) at that length/width.  I would try to keep the shape of nose similar too what you are riding now.  A full nose will be more stable than a pointed nose.  I still struggle on a pointy nose 9' x30" 136L (gf=1.46)
I grew up a passionate bodyboarder, never really got into traditional surfing.  Now I have that same passion for standup paddle surfing, I am hooked.  I am also a kitesurfer, which complements perfectly, so I can always have fun, no matter what the conditions are.
Have fun.

[ncdylan]

Thanks sflinux. Here is a pic of the board I sold. I think it's called a "hammer" shape? Your points resonate- getting good on a smaller board will really increase skill- similar to why I insist on paddling even on windy days when i used to just surf- simply to get better.

[ncdylan]

I may pick this up. It's longer by 4", but thinner and narrower and a GF of 2.1 (currently riding at a 2.5)

[ncdylan]

Dimensions here

[ncdylan]

Or maybe this one, - shorter, wider, and a GF of 2
(9ft. x 33" x 4.5"  160 liters)

[sflinux]

Both of those boards look like a challege, which will require practice.  The 9' will have front to back tippiness.  The 10'6" x 29" board will have some side to side tippiness.  Both of which will require practice, but you should be able to adapt.  I would think about: what type of wave, distance to the wave, currents, and style that you are going after.  Is the wave that you ride more of a shortboard or longboard wave?
I had a few injuries during my progression, which motivated me to become proficient on smaller boards, which was a much longer journey than I expected.
My first injury was I hyperextended my thumb, while tightly holding on to my paddle while a wave struck it.  At the time, I didn't respect the torque a paddle has when you hold the shaft in the middle.  Now I am aware of where the paddle is when a wave is approaching, and am aware of how I am holding the shaft with respect to the blade.
My second injury was I dislocated or broke a rib or two.  I was on a 30# 11' x 29.125" 154L board.  I made the rookie mistake of falling in front of my board, and the wave slammed the board into my ribs.  That cut my water time a lot.  After that I followed Beasho's recommendation and got a Oneil Gooru impact vest, worn underneath my wetsuit.  I love the Gooru.  When I bodyboarded I would always get soreness in my ribs from lying prone,
The heavy 11' board scared had me scared.  I got a 9' x 30" (which I severely strugged), followed by a 9'6"  x 30" (which required lots of practice).  When the waves tend to closeout, and you can't get in early, I see small boards as advantageous.  Lake takeoffs with less volume, less length, thin rails, and less weight, feels safer.  But when you can get in early on bigger waves, longboards are super fun.  Have fun.