Author Topic: Hollow 14ft sup  (Read 78725 times)

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2019, 04:13:29 PM »
Thanks for the reply. Very helpful info.
 The Falcon I have is the 12'6. The 14 is a totally different board from what I can see and reports I have read. Its just slow in the flat and the nose slaps in any chop. It does just take off on any little bump. Only been out for 2 proper downwind runs and it was great. Easy to steer and I'm not very good. Virtually new with a good bag for less than half the new price. Couldn't say no. Sponsored rider that just got the new 14ft blitz.
 What do I want? A good all round board that I can stay up on( yes the Falcon is that) so I guess I just want a 14 ft board. Slowly getting into downwinding. It's always a bit choppy or windy or something around here. Left yesterday morning and it was glassy and within an hour there was just under 10knots of breeze and starting to get a little choppy. Summer so loads of boats around.
 This is an experiment of designing and building my own board in a different way for me. I have built hollow wooden boards,vac bagged wood onto foam cores. The last board I did was foam core with 2mm airex innegra and flax on the bottom and Paulownia deck. Nothing new but I like experimenting. Now I want to try a hollow board with composite panels because the wood boards are lovely but heavy.
 Did 8 ks yesterday in 1hr 5min. Avg 7.5km/h. Bit of messing about catching boat wakes and stopped for a drink. Can't deal with the camelback. Im usually having a heart attatck and breathing so heavily there is no way I can drink at the same time. Trying to work on all of this.
 

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3986
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2019, 04:26:29 PM »
I agree. A good shape is a very subtle blend of things and is hard to achieve. I wouldn’t go too off piste with a first design.

Concaves can add a lot of stability, so can be useful. The Hypr Nalu boards use extreme concaves yet paddle fast. So it can be done - probably there is a point at which being able to go narrower because of the concaves is going to add speed more than the extra drag of concaves scrubs it off. But it might be a bit ambitious for a first build.

In general I think the cautious approach, learning from the best existing boards is the right one. And doing it right: The older Falcons are a case in point, since the 12-6 boards were a lot less successful than the 14s IMO. It was almost like they just chopped the tail off a 14 to make the 12-6, rather than rejigged the shape entirely to accommodate the shorter length, which is what needed to be done. This might be why you have a lukewarm impression of the Falcon?

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3986
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2019, 04:27:57 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 04:30:02 PM by Area 10 »

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2019, 11:17:08 PM »
The frames so you can get a better idea of the shape.

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2019, 11:37:24 PM »
Try again. Cant seem to get it all in one!

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2019, 12:09:40 PM »
Frames are cut.

SupSimcoe

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • SimcoeSup
    • Email
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2019, 01:55:54 PM »
very nice design. I have a hollow paulownia wood flat deck Clearwood VLZ14 but that looks faster and more stable. Mine is a fast board but lots of wake when I get above 9.5 kph which is where I try to hold it. It also takes a lot of work to keep it stable in any side chop.

I have been thinking that it would be interesting to build a board like this with strips of carbon/foam/fibreglass sandwich instead of wood and then do a bit of carbon under the standing area to re-inforce that area.
SUP Lake Simcoe
Clearwood VLZ 14*23 hollow wood- self-built
Infinity Whiplash 14*25 dugout
Jimmy Lewis Rail 14*26.5
Kenalu Mana 90, Kenalu Mana 82
SUP Reviews  http://simcoesup.blogspot.ca/

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2019, 02:52:22 PM »
Funny you should mention the VLZ I4. Amazing looking board. I almost bought that kit. I don't think this will be as fast but it should be more stable.
 Randy at Clearwood cut the frames for me.
 As I said in the beginning it will be made of composite panels. Foam core panels with S-glass,maybe some flax. Some carbon where needed. Not sure of the exact build method yet. There might be some Paulownia in there somewhere.
 No idea what the design is going to be like so don't wont to spend ages or a lot of money on the first board.

TallDude

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5245
  • Capistrano Beach
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2019, 05:09:05 PM »
Looks good so far. Plenty of volume....
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I don't use.

blackeye

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2019, 10:10:54 AM »
Looks like a fun project. I want to do the same someday. Have you considered putting limber holes in the frames so the inevitable leaks can drain nose to tail?

BrentP

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2019, 02:10:02 PM »
Haven't tried any of them. Can't afford to buy one let alone all of them. Really hard to find boards around here. Lots in the North of France. I have a 2018 Fanatic Falcon 12'6x26.75. Super stable. Not the best flatwater board but good downwind. Haven't seen the 2020 blackfish! Yes double concave starting to get tricky.
 I really thought hard about the concave. Most boards seem to have them now so I thought I would try it. If it looks too complicated I can just glue a strip of ply across the frames with the concave and make it flat.
 Burchas I would  be interested in a brief report of the pros and cons of the boards you had like the blackfish. Will your design have a concave?

My design had a super subtle concave, but after going with flat bottom for my last 2 boards I changed it to flat as well.
Adding a concave may or may not make your board faster. It might make it track better or have a little more control in certain conditions but one thing for sure is it will add some form of drag. It's so easy to fuck-up a concave design and it happened to the big brands as well. If I'll ever copy bottom contours, I'd make sure it's from one of the mature shapes on the market.

Naish Maliko is one of the most mature shapes, the SIC RS is another. Both very different but very successful shapes. BTW, I consider your Falcon (before they changed its name to Blitz), a mature shape as well and a very good one. Had a good opportunity to put some miles in various conditions on the a 14x23 Falcon prototype Arthur Arutkin paddled just before they renamed it to Blitz. Really good board and one I would definitely be content with in a 14x25.

Have mixed feeling about the EVO 2 and the Blackfish.

I had the EVO 2 14x26 for testing and while it felt much better than the EVO 1, I wasn't too impressed with it compared to RS, Maliko or the Falcon going in small bumps and side wind/chop felt more labored in these conditions imo. One very noticeable difference from previous version was the tail. I was surprised by the ease and control off the tail with this board probably more than all boards mentioned above.

As for the Blackfish, this board has gone under so many changes year over year that it starts to look more like an experiment rather than a shape that's coming into its own (unlike the the Whiplash that really evolved into a great board). This year is no different and if the proto I saw is something to go by, I would not know it's a blackfish unless I was told.

To put it simply, I would much rather have a Falcon (Blitz) than a Blackfish or an Evo 2.
If I was to work on a design being in your situation, I would start with the devil I know and maybe reference some design concepts from mature shapes that are proven year over year.

You never said what's wrong with your Falcon outside the fact you thought it was not the fastest board around?
Also, what are you after with this new board is something you didn't speak about.

Blackfish sure does seem to keep winning races with every design anyway so who's to say that's a bad thing? I see the changes as more of a smaller brand being able to be nimble and make the latest greatest. You LA fin guys sure do love your gossip! ;) I saw Junes proto board and it looks sweet!  I'm willing to bet it's just a custom at this point and not for 2020.

For a project like this it definitely seems the best approach is to start out simple and evolve from there. I think an all around style shape like the one's mentioned is a great place to start and makes a lot of sense. Especially an all around style design. How about this, you take the bottom of the RS match it to the outline of the Blackfish and take the tail shape from the Fanatic and voila! Go for it have fun with it!


tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2019, 10:30:26 PM »
Looks like a fun project. I want to do the same someday. Have you considered putting limber holes in the frames so the inevitable leaks can drain nose to tail?
Inevitable leaks!!!!
 I have made a few hollow wood boards and they only time they have leaked was when I put a hole in them. Cut a big hole to do the repair and left it in the sun for a couple of days. Then did the repair.
 I am 50/50 on limber holes on this one.
 BentP. The design is done and the frames are cut. Thanks though.

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2019, 10:22:30 PM »
I went for a paddle yesterday and there was a guy on a SIC RS 14x24.5. What a great looking board. He was no slouch and he was gone. He paddled around both islands about 1.5-2 ks longer and I took the short cut between the islands. So I came out infront and as he overtook me I thought I could get a tow from him. Nope,he was gone again. I have only tried this a few times though.
 Anyhow I go and see him and have a chat in the car park. He has owned various boards from various brands and does the odd race. He loves this board. Not as fast as others at certain times but overall over a 10 k race he loves it and will not change boards again for awhile he said. A little heavier than some but great construction.
 It is just a beautiful looking board. All the curves look right. It glides through the water beautifully. The one thing he said at 85 kgs it could have a little more volume or higher sides for winter paddling here. He didn't won't to go wider to get more volume.
 
 

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23423
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2019, 09:07:33 AM »
Pretty slick. Are the frames laser cut? I don't see any of the telltale dark edges.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

tarquin

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2019, 03:32:37 AM »
No not laser cut. CNC router.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal