Author Topic: Hollow 14ft sup  (Read 75746 times)

tarquin

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Hollow 14ft sup
« on: August 28, 2019, 11:45:23 PM »
Going to start a build soon. I have designed a 14x25 board. It's going to be a hollow build. I have built hollow wooden boards before. The interior will be 4mm marine ply like a wooden board. I will use a mixture a composite panels for the skin.
 Cant decide if I should go as light as possible or use some wood flax etc to keep with the natural look.
 Will make up some test panels and see weight strength etc.

Area 10

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2019, 12:01:54 AM »
Good luck, and I admire your skill.

Most self-build SUPs turn out to perform like (expensive) dogs. Mostly this is because of a lack of prototyping, I suspect. So I hope you get luckier. Designing a 14x25 that performs well is obviously harder than it looks because even some of the big brands get it wrong sometimes. But maybe you will get lucky, or you have already done some prototyping.

Please keep posting progress pics as this project comes along. It is inspiring to see what other people can build. Good luck!

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2019, 01:52:48 AM »
Yes I have contemplated this and might build a  plywood prototype. I think by looking at the design it doesn't look like a dog but you never know.
 A quick design brief. I am 45,1.79cm and 83kgs. I have been paddling for many years. Some times 2-3 times a week. So.etimes once every few months! I live in Cannes in France so all the paddling I do is around here. Its rarely calm and always some sort of chop swell wind to deal with. Winter is coming and the water is about to drop 10+ degrees. Winter is when I get to paddle more as well.
 That's why its 25 wide and about 300l. 4cm sunken deck and a concave underneath to a V'd tail.

Bean

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2019, 05:01:02 AM »
Specs out a little like my 25” Blackfish, should be a great all rounder.   

Looking forward to seeing the final product.

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2019, 05:52:55 AM »
The blackfish,evo 2 and RS were boards I studied a lot and watched/read as many reviews as possible.

burchas

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2019, 08:30:30 AM »
The blackfish,evo 2 and RS were boards I studied a lot and watched/read as many reviews as possible.

Which of those did you actually try though?

Sounds like an awesome project. Something I'm planning to do my self. I have a design pretty much ready to go (14x25 funny enough) but taking notes on some new boards on the market to see if there's anything I can take.

I rode/had all the board you mentioned plus many more. I am pretty much your specs so a lot of similarities. Maybe we should talk, I was thinking crowd funding project if there was enough interest.
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Bean

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 08:59:57 AM »
Dave B. describes a subtle bottom change from 2018 to 2019 on the Blackfish.  From a rounded concave to more of an inverted v.  (An inverted v might be a little easier to execute with 4mm ply than a rounded concave.) 

If you haven't seen the vid yet, here it is. 


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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 09:56:01 AM »
Dave B. describes a subtle bottom change from 2018 to 2019 on the Blackfish.  From a rounded concave to more of an inverted v.

Scratch that Bean. We’re are now at double concave on the 2020 Blackfish.
How’s that work for plywood? Probably not so much.

Probably better stick with flat. It faster anyway.
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Bean

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 11:19:34 AM »
Haven't seen anything on the 2020, is that a double concave, as in a side by side cathederal shape?

My fastest distance board was my Fantic Fly Race (pretty flat bottom for sure) but it did have a couple of other shortcomings.

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2019, 01:20:13 PM »
Haven't tried any of them. Can't afford to buy one let alone all of them. Really hard to find boards around here. Lots in the North of France. I have a 2018 Fanatic Falcon 12'6x26.75. Super stable. Not the best flatwater board but good downwind. Haven't seen the 2020 blackfish! Yes double concave starting to get tricky.
 I really thought hard about the concave. Most boards seem to have them now so I thought I would try it. If it looks too complicated I can just glue a strip of ply across the frames with the concave and make it flat.
 Burchas I would  be interested in a brief report of the pros and cons of the boards you had like the blackfish. Will your design have a concave?

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2019, 11:54:32 PM »
Frames and design. Maybe if I figure out how to attatch them!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 12:04:24 AM by tarquin »

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 11:57:51 PM »
Frames.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 12:03:35 AM by tarquin »

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2019, 12:28:36 AM »
Starting to look into a materials shopping list. Not going to be that much cheaper to do a plywood proto so just go for it. Not going to go crazy though. S-glass is still half the price of carbon.
 Looking at 3mm 60 or 80 kg foam core with 4 oz S-glass both sides. Probably just go 80.  6 mm end grain balsa with 4 oz S-glass both sides for the recessed standing area. Maybe bamboo veneer where you stand. Extra layers of glass where needed.
 I was thinking of making different panels for different areas but it gets too expensive. Maybe on the next build if the design is good.

tarquin

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2019, 12:44:28 AM »
 Interesting discussion about the Hypr gun on another thread. This is the other board I am building at the moment(for over a year now)! 11X28. I keep thinking a 14 ft version would be awsome.
 Put some wrinkles in the bottom when bagging it. More rocker in the nose than I wanted. Again learning about bagging. I blocked the nose and tail when bagging. Undid the clamps the next day. I guess as the epoxy dried it shrank and ended up with more nose rocker. But not in the tail.
 Epoxy takes 2-3 days to dry properly. Longer if its cold.

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Re: Hollow 14ft sup
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2019, 02:44:41 PM »
Haven't tried any of them. Can't afford to buy one let alone all of them. Really hard to find boards around here. Lots in the North of France. I have a 2018 Fanatic Falcon 12'6x26.75. Super stable. Not the best flatwater board but good downwind. Haven't seen the 2020 blackfish! Yes double concave starting to get tricky.
 I really thought hard about the concave. Most boards seem to have them now so I thought I would try it. If it looks too complicated I can just glue a strip of ply across the frames with the concave and make it flat.
 Burchas I would  be interested in a brief report of the pros and cons of the boards you had like the blackfish. Will your design have a concave?

My design had a super subtle concave, but after going with flat bottom for my last 2 boards I changed it to flat as well.
Adding a concave may or may not make your board faster. It might make it track better or have a little more control in certain conditions but one thing for sure is it will add some form of drag. It's so easy to fuck-up a concave design and it happened to the big brands as well. If I'll ever copy bottom contours, I'd make sure it's from one of the mature shapes on the market.

Naish Maliko is one of the most mature shapes, the SIC RS is another. Both very different but very successful shapes. BTW, I consider your Falcon (before they changed its name to Blitz), a mature shape as well and a very good one. Had a good opportunity to put some miles in various conditions on the a 14x23 Falcon prototype Arthur Arutkin paddled just before they renamed it to Blitz. Really good board and one I would definitely be content with in a 14x25.

Have mixed feeling about the EVO 2 and the Blackfish.

I had the EVO 2 14x26 for testing and while it felt much better than the EVO 1, I wasn't too impressed with it compared to RS, Maliko or the Falcon going in small bumps and side wind/chop felt more labored in these conditions imo. One very noticeable difference from previous version was the tail. I was surprised by the ease and control off the tail with this board probably more than all boards mentioned above.

As for the Blackfish, this board has gone under so many changes year over year that it starts to look more like an experiment rather than a shape that's coming into its own (unlike the the Whiplash that really evolved into a great board). This year is no different and if the proto I saw is something to go by, I would not know it's a blackfish unless I was told.

To put it simply, I would much rather have a Falcon (Blitz) than a Blackfish or an Evo 2.
If I was to work on a design being in your situation, I would start with the devil I know and maybe reference some design concepts from mature shapes that are proven year over year.

You never said what's wrong with your Falcon outside the fact you thought it was not the fastest board around?
Also, what are you after with this new board is something you didn't speak about.

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