Author Topic: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics  (Read 9362 times)

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Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« on: August 23, 2019, 03:58:08 PM »
Testing my new Naish Maliko 2020 on some small surf nose dived on a steep small wave (maybe 3ft face) landed on the nose with the paddle shaft, broke the shaft but there's also a good gash on the nose with some minor cracks around. It seems like the majority of the board is covered with decal, not that it helped much but thought I should mention.

Interested to hear if you think this would be a normal outcome or the construction might be on the fragile side?
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Luc Benac

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2019, 04:07:39 PM »
Thank you Yuval, now I am looking at my 2018 with more passionate eyes.....sorry you were the guinea pig but that is for the general good :-)
I often paddle in washing-machine so one day it will be landing squarely on the nose....
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 04:16:19 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2019, 06:13:20 PM »
is the paint matte under that pealing clear?

As for the construction there are always tradeoffs but I imagine that on a long board they did not bother to reinforce and area that rarely gets hit. Also it looks like single shell construction so there is only so much strength from the carbon and once deformed it compresses the EVA and then there is no support and it cracks.

At least it is easy to fix. just cut off all the damaged carbon. remove damaged foam. Mix gorilla glue with water and mix and then apply to missing foam area. Let it expand and then pop the bubbles and compress it down a little and do this a few times as it gets sticky then tape over in the rough shape it should end up in. Once dry rough sand and if then either repeat or use bondo to get final shape before glassing. The peeling clear on the other hand is a larger issue and if the paint is matte and smooth that usually happens from an improper bond during paint as they let the base finish dry too much between paint and clear.

Hard to warranty a damaged board. I have never won that argument with a manufacturer.

Also just so you know I had a JL Rail and that got a crack from the tip of a paddle that I hit on the deck when changing sides and losing balance. It was only cracked into the top layer not the full sandwich but it was only a few inches from the pad so I would have thought that it was reinforced but I have found most of the boards are only a single layer of Carbon layer to keep them light and sandwich of two thin layers is strong until hit with a high load on a small area.

I also fell on the deck of my Infinity and that is 29lbs single shell carbon and I did not even get a pressure ding from that one. Sometimes all the layers together is a good thing for these small area high loads. 

Also I have had boards were not constructed as specified in advertisements but I only notice this when they are damaged and can see under the paint. They then say that it is broken but I state that it is only after I can see under the paint that I find it is not built the way I was told which is why I bought the item in the first place. They always come back with but it is broken now and they do not warranty items damaged due to use. It is a circular argument that I usually give up on and do not purchase from them again.
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2019, 01:06:00 AM »
Iím sorry this has happened to you: that looks like it will be an expensive repair to a nearly-new board, and then there is the cost of the broken paddle too.

How did the board surf?

The Naish website seems to show the construction as one layer of glass and one layer of carbon, with wood sandwich in the standing area. But it is not clear what the extra top layer they show in the graphic is: is that a kinda shrink-wrap decal-type layer? Is it like helicopter tape or is it much less impact-resistant than that?

https://www.naishsurfing.com/product/maliko-140/

That could be pretty tricky to fix well? These days I am increasingly thinking about longevity in boards, and being cheap and easy to fix is a key part of that. After all, the greenest way to own a SUP is probably to keep it for years and years, repairing it as necessary. Iím not sure how having a shrink-wrap outer layer (or that is what it is) is compatible with that?

Iím a fan of full PVC sandwich construction (I have three boards on order that are double carbon full PVC sandwich, 3 times vacuum-bagged, from Hypr Nalu Hawaii). So Iím disappointed that Naish have moved away from that. The Kinetic factory in Vietnam managed to make Jimmy Lewis race boards that are full PVC sandwich and very durable that are also light, so why canít Naish find someone who can do similarly?

Mind you, maybe all race boards will be made like the Nelo ones soon. And then the number of dings that need fixing will be much less. But presumably the Maliko boards are at a usefully lower price point?

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2019, 06:34:17 AM »
Iím sorry this has happened to you: that looks like it will be an expensive repair to a nearly-new board, and then there is the cost of the broken paddle too.

Good news is the board is insured and paddle shaft has already been replaced (I have quite a few of those).

As for the nose fix, it shouldn't be that expensive but my plan was to do some reshape to the nose anyway. Judging from the picture I saw before buying, it seemed the nose had a hard edge to it which is not the case. I believe a hard edge like the new Javelin or the RS will benefit the board.

So I'll add that feature along with some new fin boxes and Yellow paint.

But it is not clear what the extra top layer they show in the graphic is: is that a kinda shrink-wrap decal-type layer? Is it like helicopter tape or is it much less impact-resistant than that?

Now that you mention it, it does look like shrink wrap layer but it's nothing like helicopter tape and has no impact resistance qualities.

And with the price point of the Maliko at $2800 (if you can find one) I'll definitely agree with you that the construction was compromised for the sake of weight all though they should be able to achieve a full PVC sandwich.

For me it's a development project for my next custom board. I get a dealer price on it anyway so I'm not too concerned about it. I'm looking to get all the feedback I can from this board before continuing with a hollow custom design.

Funny enough, at the current stage, my new design looks like the New Javelin and the new Maliko infused into one. That what made me pull the trigger on the Maliko.
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2019, 09:18:25 AM »
Ok then, it sounds like you are in quite a fortunate position then, so the impact of this accident will be minimal. Thatís pretty good insurance that will cover a ding in the water.

Iím going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun, which is a low volume surf-type shape with a relatively flat rocker (perhaps unusually so for a surf shape) and huge double concaves, and all-waters boards like the RS and Maliko. The Hypr 11-6 Gun is a freakishly fast flat water paddler for a surf SUP. If the speed difference is only around 1% or so then I might give up on bulbous-nosed, expensive, fragile, all-waters race boards completely, since Iím not a regular competitor, and low volume PVC sandwich boards (if you can get one) are easier in bad weather, easier to own (eg. transport, carrying etc), look nicer (IMO), are more durable, and nicer to paddle IMO (less roll, closer to the water, less corky etc). Itís a shame that more brands donít make one. Iíd have thought that a 14x26 Sunova Search for instance would please a lot of people. But of course, the Hypr boards are another level beyond that still in terms of construction and design. Maybe however the Maliko will be better to DW - Iíll have to wait until October to find out (which is when I get the new Hypr 14ft Gun). The 12-6 Hypr Gun downwind well in tiny stuff but I havenít tried it yet in big conditions, where I suspect the lack of nose rocker might make it a handful, perhaps.

Part of the issue with foam boards is of course that if you make them with loads of volume then that means loads of material, which means loads of weight. So I agree with you that for high volume boards in particular, hollow will ultimately be the way to go. Or else they should start making foam lower volume boards for all-conditions and hollow constructions for the bulbous designs. Naish did make a hollow Javelin a good few years ago. (Iím not sure it was particularly well-made though.) So it seems odd that we havenít progressed much in all these subsequent years. In fact Iíd say that some of the Naish boards from around 10 hrs ago were probably better made than the ones now (well, certainly more durable, anyway).

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 10:18:29 AM »
Iím going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun...

I would be interested to learn about your findings as well. If it's anything like my M-15 Gun:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34707.0.html

It might prove successful in replacing the fat boards for the most part, at least for me.

Looked at their website and couldn't find this specific model. What are the specs? (including volume and weight)

I'll still shoot for a hollow construction after all development is done. Maybe even crowd fund it ,if there's enough interest, and get to a price point lower than 2k.
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2019, 02:12:50 PM »
Took my Javelin with a 7" fin (BP Sonic) today and had a bit of a downbreezer on my way back. Definitely, the shorter depth is helpful on not stalling the board so less than an inch does make a difference. That might be a very good combination 7" Bump fin and Javelin.
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2019, 05:56:25 PM »
Each to their own but I find fins like the sonic the opposite of what is good for DW, unless the conditions are tiny. I prefer shorter bases and more area towards the tip, whereas the Sonic has all the area at the base. If you are going for a short ďrace finĒ for downbreezing Iíd suggest the SIC weedless or even the VMG Mako 35. Long bases tend to cause broaching DW, and increased tracking (which a longer base gives) isnít really a key factor for DW. Indeed, it can be a curse.

But I think weíve been here before...

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2019, 06:24:55 PM »
Each to their own but I find fins like the sonic the opposite of what is good for DW, unless the conditions are tiny. I prefer shorter bases and more area towards the tip, whereas the Sonic has all the area at the base. If you are going for a short ďrace finĒ for downbreezing Iíd suggest the SIC weedless or even the VMG Mako 35. Long bases tend to cause broaching DW, and increased tracking (which a longer base gives) isnít really a key factor for DW. Indeed, it can be a curse.

But I think weíve been here before...

As I said it was a flat water day with bit of slow bumps/ light wind (10 knots or less) at the end, so the Sonic worked fairly well to keep some momentum going.
The SIC 7.0 is spoken for for my wife board and you don't mess with my wife board :-). Might need to get a second one as they are quite inexpensive....
I need some base to get the speed to get into the bumps. We usually do not have very strong wind compared to the short period & steep chops and I have to say that, on the Maliko, the GTS works a treat. Deep fins tend to "stop" the board before it really takes-off and it is demanding on the engine to try to keep things going. The few times we get clean swell with space in between, I feel like a hundred million. It feels effortless and fast.
I am waiting for the next iteration of Larry Allison "Bump" fin short (7") with some area at the tip, to see it is a good compromisse between a fin with short base and "straight" lines and a fin with wide base and flex at the tip.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 06:33:01 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 12:09:34 AM »
The base of the VMG Mako 35 is 6.1Ē. It is a cutaway. Cutaways are good for decent DW conditions IMO.

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 07:01:28 AM »
The base of the VMG Mako 35 is 6.1Ē. It is a cutaway. Cutaways are good for decent DW conditions IMO.

Yes it is pretty much a Mako 37 with a reduced (cutaway) base but at 210mm or 8"25 it still has a lot of depth. I am trying to stay at 7" or close to see if it indeed improve any stalling on light conditions <20 knots. it is curious that Naish has stuck with fin-box placed so close to the tail (5" to 6") over the years. It does not seem to have bothered their riders like Casper and Kai or are they riding customs anyway with boxes closer to 12"?
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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2019, 07:04:01 AM »
Iím going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun...

I would be interested to learn about your findings as well. If it's anything like my M-15 Gun:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34707.0.html

It might prove successful in replacing the fat boards for the most part, at least for me.

Looked at their website and couldn't find this specific model. What are the specs? (including volume and weight)

I'll still shoot for a hollow construction after all development is done. Maybe even crowd fund it ,if there's enough interest, and get to a price point lower than 2k.
Iím going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun...

I would be interested to learn about your findings as well. If it's anything like my M-15 Gun:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34707.0.html

It might prove successful in replacing the fat boards for the most part, at least for me.

Looked at their website and couldn't find this specific model. What are the specs? (including volume and weight)

I'll still shoot for a hollow construction after all development is done. Maybe even crowd fund it ,if there's enough interest, and get to a price point lower than 2k.
The Hypr Gun 14ft is a new model for this year. It seemed to emerge out of a discussion I had with the boss of Hypr Nalu Hawaii, Ian Foo, and our local/EU distributor Richard Webb. I was saying that I often surf my 16ft low volume DW board, and that the Hypr 12-6 gun caught little downbreeze bumps surprisingly well, so it would be really great if there was a slimmed-down 14ft version of ther 12ft gun for those of us who like fast-paddling surf shapes that can be used for DW, exploring, and surfing gentle breaks. And then he asked me what construction I'd ideally have, and I said that I'd probably want a carbon full PVC sandwich, to keep weight down and make repairs easier.

(Most of the Hypr Nalu wood boards are made with a thick veneer of tropical hardwood with a stringer that make and i-beam type construction, so they are very strong and durable - and look gorgeous - but they aren't particularly light. There is a video somewhere of a Hypr board being washed up over some rocks in decent surf, and when its brought ashore there are only minor scratches on it, which is incredible given the beating it was getting. So they are very tough. But my DW boards regularly take a battering in 30-50 knot winds so even the toughest construction is occasionally going to need a repair or two, and a carbon finish would be easier than a tropical hardwood one, I reckoned.)

Anyway, the next thing I know, Ian Foo is saying "right, I'm off to work on one (i.e. a 14ft gun design) now".  And a couple of months later I get sent these pictures, to decide if this is the sort of construction I want. It is double-carbon full PVC sandwich, vacuum-bagged 3 times over a quality foam core, with wood block tail and noses. Yes, it is going to get crazy hot in the sun! But I have a Coreban exposed carbon 14ft DW board so I am used to having to take care of my boards and keep them in a board bag. So it doesn't bother me much - plus I live in the UK, and its not often particularity hot here...

(These pics are NOT of the 14ft Gun. They are of some surf shapes and the Hypr Nalu 12-6 race board. I'm just including them to show you the construction that the 14ft is going to be. But I've ordered my 14ft to have no dragon graphics - instead it is going to be a completely stripped-down black minimalist look, to let the materials shine through.)

I've already got their 10-6, 11-6 and 12-6 gun shapes. So I know quite a bit about how this design handles. They are crazy fast paddlers for surf shapes, and have very thin rails so they turn really well on a wave. They don't have much nose rocker so you do need to have quick footwork, and angle down the line in steep waves. But the pay-off is that they pick up every little ripple going, and are extremely fast down the line. And this also means that they pick up tiny downbreeze bumps incredibly well too. In fact I was out surfing the 10-6 recently, swapping between it and my SIC RS 14ft. The 10-6 actually seemed to be able to pick up the tiny little nanowaves (not more than 1ft) better than the RS, which was kinda freaky.

Anyway, I'm having to wait a few weeks yet before I find out what the 14 is like. But I'll let you know. Then I'll have to try to find a 9-6 Hypr Gun too, so that I have 9-6, 10-6, 11-6, 12-6 and 14 all in the same basic design concept: will make for some really interesting comparisons.

And if you go ahead with your crowdfunded hollow board, please let me know. That sounds like a really interesting project.

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 07:15:23 AM »
The base of the VMG Mako 35 is 6.1Ē. It is a cutaway. Cutaways are good for decent DW conditions IMO.

Yes it is pretty much a Mako 37 with a reduced (cutaway) base but at 210mm or 8"25 it still has a lot of depth. I am trying to stay at 7" or close to see if it indeed improve any stalling on light conditions <20 knots. it is curious that Naish has stuck with fin-box placed so close to the tail (5" to 6") over the years. It does not seem to have bothered their riders like Casper and Kai or are they riding customs anyway with boxes closer to 12"?

The 35 Mako VMG Blades fin has a very unusual foil to it (it is much thicker off the leading edge than most, with fairly sharp leading and trailing edges). This makes it feel much smaller than it is in use - it feels no bigger than the 7.0 SIC Weedless. It also makes it very low drag. The only problem is that it is expensive, and also because they are so light weight (itís like air!) they arenít the most durable fins on the market. But they are aimed at the race specialist, and they are a very interesting concept that works well, pretty much unlike any other. And as I say, they paddle much smaller than they are. Real slippery. Try one if you can. No way in hell does it feel like any other 8Ē fin youíve tried.

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Re: Naish 2020 construction snuff pics
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2019, 07:29:22 AM »
The 35 Mako VMG Blades fin has a very unusual foil to it (it is much thicker off the leading edge than most, with fairly sharp leading and trailing edges). This makes it feel much smaller than it is in use - it feels no bigger than the 7.0 SIC Weedless. It also makes it very low drag. The only problem is that it is expensive, and also because they are so light weight (itís like air!) they arenít the most durable fins on the market. But they are aimed at the race specialist, and they are a very interesting concept that works well, pretty much unlike any other. And as I say, they paddle much smaller than they are. Real slippery. Try one if you can. No way in hell does it feel like any other 8Ē fin youíve tried.

I used the Mako 37 a lot on the Ace-GT before going smaller with the Sonic. I was looking at getting a Mako 28 but they come out at $250 in Canada and that was getting very steep. I quite like it, but to your point all these carbon fins feel really light and I have always wondered if I might come back with the fin in case of a small piece of wood in the water or some shallow parts. A good old fibreglass fin makes me feels more secured when I am down-winding on my own:-)

Today I will try the SIC 7.0 with the promisse to bring it back to its owner :-)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 08:00:11 AM by Luc Benac »
Flat#Javelin LE 14' x 26" 250L / Blackfish Andaman 500
DW#Maliko 14' x 26" 264L / Blackfish Salish 460 & 500
Wave#Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
Touring#Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" 313L / KeNalu Mana 520
#LAfins GTS