Author Topic: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020  (Read 203377 times)

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #165 on: November 29, 2019, 04:08:48 AM »
interesting, Mustang dropped 43% this year.

That is for the quarter.  The year for Mustangs was down but by 7%.  This is pretty interesting because all Ford "Cars" were down 17%.  It is telling because of the 2.4 Million vehicles Ford sold only 457,000 were cars and of those only 76,000 were mustangs.  Ford sells almost twice as many SUV's as cars and almost 3 times as many Trucks (1,140,000/yr) and both of those categories are growing.  So they are really trying to keep the Mustang name alive with this move.  People have responded very well to the vehicle but not so much to the branding.  It is a little weird.

Here is an interesting poll about the Mach E vs the Tesla Y https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidundercoffler/2019/11/22/consumers-split-on-tesla-model-y-vs-ford-mach-e/#22dde3987dd8

We surveyed just over 1,000 people, and the results were essentially a draw: 51 percent of respondents said they would choose the Mustang Mach-E, 49 percent said they would choose the Model Y.

We then asked people to choose three reasons why they chose the vehicle that they did.

Those who preferred the Ford cited the following reasons:

Prefer/trust Ford more
The Mach-E’s exterior styling
Ford’s established dealer and service network
The Mach-E’s expected reliability
Concerns about Tesla’s future

It’s interesting that on this list is Ford’s dealer and service network — a key advantage legacy automakers have over Tesla, which is currently struggling with long delays for parts and service at their service centers nationwide. Ford says it has certified more than 2,100 of its dealers to sell and service the Mach-E.

Those respondents who said they’d choose the Tesla Model Y cited the following reasons for doing so:

Prefer/trust Tesla more
Expected reliability
The Model Y’s expected performance
Tesla’s Supercharging network
Dislike of the Ford brand

Key among consumers’ reasons for choosing the Model Y is Tesla’s Supercharging network. While Ford has stitched together its own network of charging stations from a variety of existing services, it’s still not as robust as Tesla’s setup.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 04:15:29 AM by Admin »

RideTheGlide

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #166 on: November 29, 2019, 04:23:51 AM »
Is there no interoperabillity of charging stations in the networks? When parking lots put in charging stations, isn't it just one kind for all? I don't have to look for an in network station for Hyundai s to fill my car with gas. I know the deal about it being free for some Teslas and get they they need to go to a Tesla charging station for that, but it seems like any electric should be able to pay at different stations. Or maybe that is an ideal not currently being achieved.
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PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #167 on: November 29, 2019, 06:47:46 PM »
The underlying problem is that the installed base of chargers (other than Tesla Superchargers) are very slow chargers. It's easy to put in a low power charger, most people who have an EV have one in their garage. 220V @ 30 amps = 6600 watts is fine for overnight, not fine for topping off during a trip. A full charge for a 100KWH battery is 15 hours. Even people with a 100KWH Tesla generally only charge to 85 percent and probably discharge to 20 percent, so the time to charge is more like nione hours, but still...

Ford's cobbled together network is basically slow chargers. You won't use them for distance travel.

Teslas superchargers are 480VDC chargers that directly connect to the cars 400V battery and the charge at rates from 72‒250 kW depending on when the charger was installed or upgraded and some limitations on older cars. A full charge is less than half hour on the new ones, the more likely 20 percent to 85 percent is about 12 minutes.

Other carmakers have a lot of catching up to do. Currently available competing cars have less range than a 2012 Model S. Still, Musk always said his intent was to spur the adoption of EVs. I think that's working.

You can still watch the fossils on Autoweek proclaiming that no one will ever make money building electric cars. It's kind of funny.
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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #168 on: November 29, 2019, 08:36:42 PM »
If I only need about 100 miles of daily range tops, 50 on average, what is my best cheap option right now? 70k isn't in the cards any time soon.

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #169 on: November 29, 2019, 11:24:31 PM »
Take a look at used Teslas--I plan to buy one myself in the spring. Even a 2012 still has lots of life in the battery, but the best value with most features are 2016 and newer. The older Teslas depreciate like iPhones. You can get a car that cost $120K new with low mileage and great condition for about $45K, and if you don't care about the autodrive you can get one down to about $30K. A lot of car for the money and anything prior to 2017 has free supercharging for the life of the car. I doubt they'll depreciate much more than that.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 11:27:18 PM by PonoBill »
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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #170 on: November 30, 2019, 03:15:56 AM »
Is there no interoperabillity of charging stations in the networks? When parking lots put in charging stations, isn't it just one kind for all? I don't have to look for an in network station for Hyundai s to fill my car with gas. I know the deal about it being free for some Teslas and get they they need to go to a Tesla charging station for that, but it seems like any electric should be able to pay at different stations. Or maybe that is an ideal not currently being achieved.

Snipped from the article below:  Vehicles from other automakers will also be able to use the stations in Ford's network, unlike in the Supercharger network, which is available only to Tesla customers.

Here are the specifics of what Ford is calling their FordPass charging network.  https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-fordpass-charging-network-tesla-supercharger-electric-car-charging-2019-10


Ford announced on Thursday it is giving electric-vehicle customers two years of free access to over 12,000 charging stations in North America with over 35,000 plugs.

The FordPass Charging Network will also include DC fast-charging stations from Electrify America that will allow for a vehicle to charge from 10% to 80% in 45 minutes. Ford did not specify the number of plugs in the network that will have fast-charging capability.  Here is the current map of stations from Electrify America:  https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpqfs0PyR5gIVMhh9Ch239gjxEAAYASABEgKjyfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Through the FordPass Charging Network, Ford's electric-vehicle customers will for two years have free access to more charging stations than are included in Tesla's Supercharger network (which has 1,636 stations and 14,497 plugs in North America).


Here is an article on the self-chargers that Ford is includig with all Mach E's (and we could probably assume the upcoming trucks as well) https://electrek.co/2019/11/18/ford-mustang-mach-e-home-charging-on-par-with-tesla/ . Ford came to play.

Last month we reviewed the portable charging cords OEMs provide with their North American electric vehicles, and the results were wild.  We gave Tesla’s Gen2 UMC an A+, Audi an A, Nissan a B, Hyundai a D, GM a D-, BMW an F, and Jaguar an F-. Now we have our first look and some exclusive details about what Ford is calling simply the “Ford Mobile Charger”. Based on what we know so far, we can confidently predict an A rating, but probably an A+, and we may have to level down all the other OEMs besides Tesla. And Ford is including a couple of extras that Tesla doesn’t.



« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 04:55:08 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #171 on: November 30, 2019, 09:31:47 AM »
Clever move on Ford's part. They don't have to spend $100K-250K per charging station to seem like they have a competing charging network. The lower capacity charging stations have always been available to any EV, including Tesla. Level 1 (low power AC) Charging adapters are standard NEMA J1772. The native Tesla adapter is different but Teslas come with an adapter so they can use any AC charger. They also have an AC charger that comes with the car that can be plugged into any 110v (pitifully slow) or 220v outlet (more useful).

There are two standards for fast DC charging--CCS (250 kW) and CHAdeMO (50 kW). Teslas are not directly compatible with either of them. There are adapters available, but it's not just a matter of switching pins, the charger needs to communicate with the battery. EU Teslas have had functioning CCS adapters for some time, but the EU CCS communication is not compatible with Canadian and US CCS. Model 3s in Europe come with CCS native connectors and the superchargers in EU are being refitted to take either native Tesla or CCS connectors.

There are CCS and CHAdeMO adapters either available or in the works but the standards keep changing as the charge rates keep increasing. That's a good thing for the long term and theoretically a PITA for the short term. Theoretically because most Tesla owners use Superchargers and destination chargers (the kind of chargers Tesla sells to hotels and parking lots) for travel anyway. The overwhelming majority of chargers in the Electrify America network are Level 1 (slow) like the ones you find in every large parking lot or big box store. Useful, but not fast charge. They're the equivalent of a gas can--not there to fill up your tank, but they can get you to where you need to be. Electrify America is a serious player though, and a very welcome addition to the EV changeover. Now if Tesla and EA can stop pissing on each other's shoes things will get a lot more handy. Right now the number of fast chargers they have is trivial, but I suspect Ford and other automakers will be happy to support them if that means Tesla's big lead gets whittled.

The Ford announcement is 90 percent air, but by the time their EV's are available, it might not be.

If that sounds like a pissing match, that's because it is.
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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #172 on: November 30, 2019, 09:42:51 AM »
With a bit of makeup and mood lighting it is almost attractive and worth a test drive.

Bob

Did you get a test drive?  How was it?

Their website is a bit lacking in details.  It says air suspension but that’s it.  Just wondering if it is independent suspension or solid axle(s).   

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #173 on: November 30, 2019, 10:07:28 AM »
Independent, like all Teslas. There's no real way to even make a solid axle unless you have a driveshaft.
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eastbound

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #174 on: November 30, 2019, 01:21:04 PM »
understand it's slow--but what is the time to charge with 110v?

just learned it is in fact 4+ days! 4 miles of drive range per hour at 110v

not relevant to the discussion

220v charges in 10 hrs



« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 01:24:07 PM by eastbound »
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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #175 on: November 30, 2019, 01:52:09 PM »
With a bit of makeup and mood lighting it is almost attractive and worth a test drive.

Bob

Did you get a test drive?  How was it?

Their website is a bit lacking in details.  It says air suspension but that’s it.  Just wondering if it is independent suspension or solid axle(s).

No Fly

no test drive the truck was in for "repairs".....but seriously likely no one will get a test drive until 2021.

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #176 on: November 30, 2019, 03:23:20 PM »
Here is a very impressive and detailed editorial on the Cybertruck. It is written by the co-founder of Tesloop. Tesloop use to run shuttles from LA to Las Vegas, LA to San Diego, and point to point within LA county. Now they rent one Teslas for the same market.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/27/the-tesla-cybertruck-isnt-a-pickup-its-much-much-more/

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #177 on: November 30, 2019, 06:51:57 PM »
Nice article. I more or less agree with all of it. The degree of utility built into this thing is hard to comprehend, especially hard when you're just looking at the strange shape. Score and fold is the silver bullet for building a unibody from stainless steel, and stainless steel is the silver bullet for unibodies. You can just look at this thing and see that it's much cheaper, faster, and more space-efficient to build than any stamped and painted, compound curved, body-on-frame truck.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 06:54:01 PM by PonoBill »
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Re: Electric Su rf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #178 on: November 30, 2019, 07:35:22 PM »
Wow! You guys are super dialed and stoked on the Teslas. I saw the Cyber truck on the news the other day and just stumbled on this same article you posted, Tom.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/27/the-tesla-cybertruck-isnt-a-pickup-its-much-much-more/

750,000 miles and maybe even 1,000,000! Incredible vehicle and as someone who first thought the Honda Element was the worst looking vehicle ever and ended up buying one, I almost instantly though the same of the Cybertruck. After reading this article I'm sold.
But can you put racks on it?!
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Re: Electric Su rf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #179 on: November 30, 2019, 09:22:56 PM »
After reading this article I'm sold.
But can you put racks on it?!
You could Tek screw or weld anything you want to just about anywhere on the SS exoskeleton.   
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