Author Topic: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020  (Read 203400 times)

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2019, 01:05:36 AM »
My new Rivian will have 400 miles of range so maybe not an issue for me :) but Joe Biden announced his Greener new deal and he plans to make EV and public charging a priority.

https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/biden-warren-clean-energy/

"Biden is also aiming to accelerate EV adoption, with a plan to deploy more than 500,000 new public charging stations by 2030. He’s also calling to fully restore the electric vehicle tax credit."
Wow, that's exactly what I was imagining when I said I thought there's a market for vehicles that have a truck bed without the overblown truck styling.  And while the Tesla truck styling may scare away people who don't want to call attention to themselves, I can easily see people who currently have something like a Subaru wagon getting something like the Rivian (truck or SUV) for their next vehicle, with the electric aspect being as much of a  positive (eliminates worry of buying a dinosaur) as the non-overcompensating styling.


I also think a lot of people aren't yet comfortable going electric yet, but at the same time feel that buying another gas one is a step backwards.  Some people love being the first with something, but more don't (especially when it's expensive) and electric cars are still rare enough that many people don't have close friends or relatives who have one. A few more electric vehicle options and some better charging could cause a cascade effect, and most everyone knows that, which could increase the cascade.  So many people seem to be just waiting now.

It is great that these guys will be first to market with a truck because the specs are off the chart and they are setting a really high bar for Tesla and others to follow. 

beached

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2019, 03:22:28 AM »
regards the Rivian, it must be nice to pay $70G for a base model truck without blinking an eye.

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2019, 04:05:12 AM »
regards the Rivian, it must be nice to pay $70G for a base model truck without blinking an eye.

They are saying $62,500 (if you went with the base level) with the tax credit and if you factor in annual savings for fuel and maintenance you are pretty comparable to a ICE truck that will tow 11,000 lbs.  But then consider the spec of the vehicle.  You are getting way more for your money.

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2019, 05:51:05 AM »
my 2013 Ridgeline cost about $30G. yeah, it won't tow 11G, but then again, i don't tow anything and think most that own pickups don't either. i'm not saying the Rivian isn't a cool truck...i think it's awesome. But if you tend to take very longs trips (like i do a few times a year), the Rivian won't cut it. And if you want that 400 mile capability, you'll pay a lot more than 62K.  And regards the cost savings, as an engineer friend of mine told me: you don't buy an electric vehicle because it's overall cheaper (because it isn't), you buy it because it's electric. 

TallDude

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2019, 06:08:25 AM »
For me the ultimate is just not having to drive. I like Zero to 150 to Zero "You have arrived at your destination".
Remember these early electric vehicles?
 
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2019, 06:41:21 AM »
Your engineer friend has never driven one--if he had, he'd never say something so silly. Most of the people I know who have a Tesla bought it because they drove one, usually one belonging to a friend. Diane and I weren't even considering them until we drove a friend's tatty 2012 model S. By every measure, it's the best car I've ever driven, and I've owned and driven a lot of great cars. There's a reason why it's been Motor Trend's Car Of The Year every year since 2012--that has to make the companies that spent millions advertising with them insane. Tesla doesn't advertise. The more objective you are about buying a car, the more likely you are to wind up with a Tesla Model S or 3 (or maybe an X, though I think they suck toads). Being electric and considering the environment doesn't even need to enter the decision-making process.

Rivian is going to have a tough go because they lack the infrastructure of high-speed chargers that Tesla has. While it's true that more than 99.6 percent of trips driven in the USA in private vehicles are less than two hundred miles round trip, there is still the perception that a vehicle that can't accommodate every potential use is undesirable. I know that firsthand--its why I bought my stupid giant F350. I'd say 99.99 percent of my use of that truck could be accommodated better with an econobox.

If I don't fall in love with the Tesla Pickup or Model Y I think next spring I'll ditch the F350 and buy a used Model S, put racks on it and rip the back seats out. It will be perfect. Park it on the street, charge it at my shop. I want to do a massive PV system at the shop anyway. Even with the cheap Northwest electricity, the payback on solar for my use will be 7 years. People will go insane at the way I'm abusing a beautiful car, but it will be a straight-across deal financially, and I'll never fill that 48-gallon tank or darken the door at SpeedyLube again. Definitely needs to be 4WD, might need to jack it up.

Wow, thanks for the inspiration, beached, I just realized the time to sell my F350 is this autumn before we head for Maui.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 07:02:07 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2019, 09:42:13 AM »
Pono,  i think you misinterpreted me. all my engineering friend drives is electric vehicles and has for years. he loves them. what he meant was you don't buy an electric vehicle for savings, you buy them because once you do, you never want to drive ICE's again.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 09:45:40 AM by beached »

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2019, 01:37:32 PM »
Pono,  i think you misinterpreted me. all my engineering friend drives is electric vehicles and has for years. he loves them. what he meant was you don't buy an electric vehicle for savings, you buy them because once you do, you never want to drive ICE's again.

I know the feeling, I was monumentally pissed to buy a new Diesel truck, but I was stuck. As much as I love racing cars, I'm kind of tickled that I don't need a truck anymore to haul mine--even though this is the very best diesel truck I've ever owned or ridden in. Really amazing. But what I'd really like is the concept version of the Honda Element (The one that you could wash the interior out with a hose and dry it with a leaf blower) but I want it as a 4WD electric with a 200 mile range.

Gregg Leion (covesurfer) is screaming "yes!"
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 02:27:19 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2019, 02:24:44 PM »
I just finished reading an interesting report from BNP Paribas (one of the world's largest banks) on the economics of oil vs. renewables. Very strange and interesting. https://docfinder.bnpparibas-am.com/api/files/1094E5B9-2FAA-47A3-805D-EF65EAD09A7F It introduces a concept I've never seen expressed in exactly this way before, but I've suspected was so (Hmmm, that doesn't make a lot of sense). Anyway, the concept is Energy Return On Capital Invested. In this report it's specifically targeted at renewables plus EVs, meaning how much energy at the wheels do we get for $100BN invested. The conclusion of the report is pretty much stated in the one-page introduction, but the rest of the report (40 pages) is interesting calculations if you like numbers and economic data.

Bottom line is that oil has a huge advantage in size and flow rate but can't compete with renewables/EVs over even a relatively short timeframe. For ICEs and oil to deliver the same mobility over the next 25 years the companies/countries would have to spend 6.2 to 7 time more than if they invested in renewables and ICEs. 25 years doesn't seem all that short term to me since I'll likely be dead before then, but that's a staggering difference, and it doesn't consider environmental costs at all.

I'd expect this study to be lambasted from every corner, anyone that talks about replacing 40% of global fuel demand in short order is going to attract some attention. That 40 percent is worth 3.2 billion dollars a DAY. The cheery folks who benefit from that cash trickle have started major wars to protect their interests. Slinging a little FUD is the least of it.


Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

pdxmike

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2019, 03:05:47 PM »
Pono,  i think you misinterpreted me. all my engineering friend drives is electric vehicles and has for years. he loves them. what he meant was you don't buy an electric vehicle for savings, you buy them because once you do, you never want to drive ICE's again.

I know the feeling, I was monumentally pissed to buy a new Diesel truck, but I was stuck. As much as I love racing cars, I'm kind of tickled that I don't need a truck anymore to haul mine--even though this is the very best diesel truck I've ever owned or ridden in. Really amazing. But what I'd really like is the concept version of the Honda Element (The one that you could wash the interior out with a hose and dry it with a leaf blower) but I want it as a 4WD electric with a 200 mile range.

Gregg Leion (covesurfer) is screaming "yes!"
I don't clean mine out with a hose and dry it with a leaf blower, but I do clean it out with a leaf blower.  It works great with the huge openings the suicide doors allow.  I actually got the idea to use a leaf blower instead of a vacuum from Caddyshack.


I just looked up Honda Element concept and found an article about the Element coming out again, but as a hybrid.  It also mentions some other changes (smaller interior, lower clearance) that could move it away from the original Element's utilitarian dream car status.


https://suvbible.com/honda/2020-honda-element/

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2019, 05:11:04 PM »
looks nice by me....
Portal Barra 8'4"
Sunova Creek 8'7"
Starboard Pro Blue Carbon  8'10"
KeNalu Mana 82, xTuf, ergoT

PonoBill

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2019, 06:15:05 PM »
The Element is an ideal design for a skateboard chassis, which every electric from now on will be. I think that would be the perfect surfmobile if it had waterproof seats, waterproof, rubberized interior, and maximum cubic uninterrupted space. Easy to design, but I don't know if anyone other than me would want one. Hybrids are a dead-end unless you just don't want to build a charging network. At some point, Tesla will probably be motivated to share, but it's such a big moat right now that the stockholders would shoot Musk if he gave it up.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2019, 07:11:34 PM »
Pono.... So we’re taking your Tesla Rat Rod on a SUP trip to San Carlos? Pretty sure they have a charging station at the fish camp....Really... have you and your techie friends ever been anywhere besides Maui. You are just full of bull shit....

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2019, 08:30:17 PM »
Pono,  i think you misinterpreted me. all my engineering friend drives is electric vehicles and has for years. he loves them. what he meant was you don't buy an electric vehicle for savings, you buy them because once you do, you never want to drive ICE's again.
This is an interesting discussion (and long, about an hour) with two engineers who dismantled a Tesla 3 and are are ready and waiting  to dismantle a Y. Their conclusions were interesting. The body was over done, could have been much simpler. After that as far as the rest of the car, no other company is coming close. https://insideevs.com/news/365847/video-munro-tesla-model-y-ev-competition/
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 08:32:43 PM by FRP »
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Kialoa Pipes II
Werner Nitro Carbon

"The time spent surfing is time that is added to my life" “In the ocean we are all connected”
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pdxmike

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Re: Electric Surf Vehicles in 2020
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2019, 08:52:42 PM »
The Element is an ideal design for a skateboard chassis, which every electric from now on will be. I think that would be the perfect surfmobile if it had waterproof seats, waterproof, rubberized interior, and maximum cubic uninterrupted space. Easy to design, but I don't know if anyone other than me would want one. Hybrids are a dead-end unless you just don't want to build a charging network. At some point, Tesla will probably be motivated to share, but it's such a big moat right now that the stockholders would shoot Musk if he gave it up.
They (the old ones, don't know about the future ones) come close to waterproof.  The interior is unbelievably spacious.  You can fold the two rear seats down flat in about two seconds each, or up against the side walls in about 10 seconds each, or in 30 seconds each you can pop them out of the car entirely.  You can fit 10' long pipes or posts inside diagonally, or a couple bikes upright, because the interior is so high.  Suicide doors make it easy to load bulky things.  Carries some things easily that would have been a struggle in my old Suburban.  Headroom and legroom are great. 


One article I read about them (or actually about a Toyota concept SUV that writer said hadn't learned from Honda's mistakes with the Element) described how the Element has a cult following, and was perfect in many ways, but never sold well.  The author's theory was that Honda marketed the Element to young adventurers, but those never bought them (one reason being young people don't buy a lot of new cars, and many don't go outside (except maybe the types who drive trucks or Jeeps?).  The people who bought them were older, often women, often dog or bicycle owners, often creative types like photographers--people who appreciated their boxy, rugged roominess and accessibility.  But Honda never marketed to those people, so people just didn't find out the Element might have been perfect for them except by chance or word of mouth.  It seemed to make some sense.

I was excited to see the new one coming out, and that it looks so similar to the old.  Would have been nice to have an electric option, but then again mine is still going like new at 150k miles so I'm not shopping yet.

 


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