Author Topic: F-One Swing  (Read 378797 times)

Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5006
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #270 on: January 26, 2020, 02:05:17 AM »
Hey Admin, I have a 6í11Ē Jimmy Lewis Flying V and a Neil Pryde Glide Surf large foil .  To be honest I am not sure where I have been putting my feet in reference to where the foil is as most of the time I am watching the wing and looking out for the random fishing boat or rogue swell.  I will try and get a reference next time. When I learned behind the jet ski I was riding a JL Flying V and Go Foil (not sure what model).  It. Seemed effortless to get up and ride the foil.
 Itís such a difficult set up here from the rigging on a rocky beach to riding and a little intimidating especially when trade winds and swells are running.  I am sure I will improve in Florida when I get back and then feel a lot more comfortable here. 
I appreciate the advice.

Hi Carib,

We are just a half step ahead of you in the beginner foiler process so this is all fresh in my mind.  On my current big board there is one relatively small foot position where the board trims and cruises best when on the surface.  I would definitely make note of that foot position on your board.  Maybe even mark your feet.  To start with you might want to position the front wing centered between your feet. 

I don't remember your weight.  I think that your wing is is 860 Wingspan at 1610 area.  That is smaller than we had initial success on.  Those measurements are not the end all but they are an indicator.  We tried for quite a while on wings of that size (and even larger) with no love.  When we went to larger wings everything clicked.  Once we got the basic feel of what was needed to take off, then the smaller wings became possible. 

Your launch and condition sounds tricky.  I wish we were there to flop around with you.  It has been a couple of months and we are gathering rust...




Caribsurf

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1623
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #271 on: January 26, 2020, 04:14:35 AM »
Well noted Admin, there are a couple of X like markings on the deck pad which I believe are for foot placement, however I havenít been able to place them exactly there as yet.  You might be right about the larger wing also...speed would make everything easier.  Itís definitely easier using the wing and staying upwind on a SUP with stronger winds.
Itís a challenge for sure. 
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
Imagine Snap 8'10"
Coreban Performer 9'3"
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #272 on: January 26, 2020, 07:57:35 AM »

.....I have a 6í11Ē Jimmy Lewis Flying V and a Neil Pryde Glide Surf large foil .

Board is too big and foil too small to make it easy.

 
Quote
When I learned behind the jet ski I was riding a JL Flying V and Go Foil (not sure what model).  It. Seemed effortless to get up and ride the foil.

That school teaches with the Maliko 200. The biggest, fattest, slowest, instant lift foil ever made.

You need the Neil Pryde XL to have a fighting chance. Unfortunately the NP company has been sold. US distribution has been sold. So the XL wings promised to the US market in September never came. Thatís why I, and all my friends, switched to Axis. I suspect the recent dumping of NP foils at $699, was due to the change in ownership/distribution. Australia is having a better time at getting them.

If you switch to Axis...the 1020 is your easiest path to learning to fly.

Here is the deal with winging that trips up lots of newbies to the sport. Even guys with prior foiling experience, but not the best naturally skilled.

Foiling is super efficient. Once airborne, you power up very quickly. To the point of having almost too much power and speed for limited skills. So, for people like this, you ideally want to pop onto foil without needing lots of power from the wing ding. But this takes pumping skill and technique. Not easy to learn.  So the less experienced/skilled need enough wing ding power to just stand on the board like a lump of coal, and let the wind power bring you up to foiling speed. Then you go airborne and freak over the speed boost from the loss of drag. This is why the HUGE foils really help when learning. They help lift the lump of coal.  ;D ;D...yet donít go so fast you freak out. Once you get dialed to this sport, you will want to go fast and you will pump onto foil in a gnat fart.
 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 08:01:40 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Wetstuff

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1817
    • View Profile
    • Wetstuff
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #273 on: January 26, 2020, 09:15:54 AM »
Dwight...  That last paragraph was simply great. 

However, can you expand on: "to just stand on the board like a lump of coal" why would you not want a bigass board, (parallel thinking to SUP surfing) for initial stability?   Thanks.

Jim
Sunova Skate XL .. Blue Planet MultiTasker ..   Atlantis Venom

supmmmm

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #274 on: January 26, 2020, 09:16:32 AM »
Morning - hope you donít mind me jumping in here - putting some gear together after trying winging last month. I bought a 2019 naish thrust surf xl foil which is coming in at 1572cms - will that be enough to get me sup foiling? Iíve read some on the forum of 2000 cms foils being used.

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #275 on: January 26, 2020, 09:42:58 AM »

However, can you expand on: "to just stand on the board like a lump of coal" why would you not want a bigass board, (parallel thinking to SUP surfing) for initial stability? 

A big ass board wonít pump.

Everyone must learn to pump the ďboardĒ into the air, to be a good wing dinger at some point.

Also, the smaller the board, the easier it is pump and to ďlearnĒ the pumping technique.

As an example, Jacky at 123 lbs struggled to get a big ass board (5í8 x 28 SUP 15.5 lbs) on foil. Yet, sheís an expert foiler, windsurf and kite foiling. One ride on a wing board (5í1 x 25 11.5 lbs) and she because a near instant pumping-onto-foil pro. Loosing 4 lbs of board weight, plus massive nose weight, just makes it click like magic.

The trick is to get your foiling skill beyond day one kook mode. If that takes a big ass used board, then do it. Just donít spend $2000 on a big ass board that is a useless turd once you get your foil legs.

Another example. I have a 210 lb 69 year old buddy whoís an expert kite foiler, yet has struggled for 6 months getting onto foil while wing dinging. 7m wing and 6m wings are required in nuking wind for him. His pumps look like wing tickles. Board moves like lead. His board is a 6í4 x 30 SUP. Iíve been loaning him my 5í8 x 29 SUP for winging to help him learn the pumping technique. He is now stoked and sad every time he has to return my 5í8. I let him ride it every time I see him. He will soon have the technique dialed and be able to ride his own 6í4 and get a more normal wind range from his wing dings. Heís going to try my 5í1 x 26 wing board soon. I think he will foil like a hero on a 5í1 x 27 99 liter wing board.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 10:08:15 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #276 on: January 26, 2020, 09:47:14 AM »
Morning - hope you donít mind me jumping in here - putting some gear together after trying winging last month. I bought a 2019 naish thrust surf xl foil which is coming in at 1572cms - will that be enough to get me sup foiling? Iíve read some on the forum of 2000 cms foils being used.

Cannot answer without your weight, wing ding sizes, wind speeds. Live at the Gorge, itís fine. Bigger is easier when learning. Frustration tolerance are all factors.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 23033
    • View Profile
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #277 on: January 26, 2020, 10:02:42 AM »
My pumping is invisible to nearby witnesses but as clear to me as the extreme bend in my knees, a thought I invariably have just before someone yells "you need to bend your knees, Bill!".

All the same, it helps me get clear of the surface on smaller foils, but there is a point where anyone who weighs more than one of my legs needs foil area and wind. I'm constantly reminded that lift is a function of the square of velocity, and that's something every beginner needs to deal with. The body position that got you off the water at 4mph will toss you into the air at 8MPH with four times the lift. You also need to pay attention to that speed/lift difference when you turn, when you bear off downwind, and when you go over a bump--each of those things radically increases speed and/or lift.

Watching the guys like Eddie Ogata and the Kalamas doing high-speed, totally committed, hard turns on a wave face leaves me wishing for an ultra-high-speed video so I could watch every move their fine-tuned muscle memory is doing. It's much too fast for thought.

We can all get there, or at least get close. It will take longer than it took for them, and of course, they'll all be off on another even less assailable rung of the ladder, but even a stumbler like me can see that there's a clear progression in foiling that probably wasn't feasible in surfing. It's a lot harder to get going, and it's hard to progress, but so far the broad intermediate plateau doesn't seem to sit there like a barrier. Almost every day is a gain.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5006
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #278 on: January 26, 2020, 10:13:15 AM »
Morning - hope you donít mind me jumping in here - putting some gear together after trying winging last month. I bought a 2019 naish thrust surf xl foil which is coming in at 1572cms - will that be enough to get me sup foiling? Iíve read some on the forum of 2000 cms foils being used.

Your weight is going to matter a lot.  Are you already foiling from another sport?  That is really the big deal.  If so, you already know the feel of taking off, have some pumping and turning skills, and can likely make a smaller foil work.  If not, you are really learning what it takes and feels like to foil.  That is a process and it is a gear reliant process.  It is a fun process though :).  Let us know your weight. 

supmmmm

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #279 on: January 26, 2020, 10:17:43 AM »
ďCannot answer without your weight, wing ding sizes, wind speeds. Live at the Gorge, itís fine. Bigger is easier when learning. Frustration tolerance are all factors.Ē

Iím running at just under 170 lbs, buying a 5m Swing for my Lake Ontario to start. My local beach can be sub 10 to 20 mph n then some. Trying to keep the sup foil board fairly small to do away with dead weight once flying. My current small surf sup is 7í10Ē @ 84 litres.
Ok with the frustration factor of going smaller. The naish website had the xl for rider weighing up to 210 lbs but I now see from their 2020 foil lineup that my 19 xl is coming in middle of the pack size wise in their roster.
When I tried it it was on a 120 litre board with a 4.2m sling wing.

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #280 on: January 26, 2020, 10:35:58 AM »
ďCannot answer without your weight, wing ding sizes, wind speeds. Live at the Gorge, itís fine. Bigger is easier when learning. Frustration tolerance are all factors.Ē

Iím running at just under 170 lbs, buying a 5m Swing for my Lake Ontario to start. My local beach can be sub 10 to 20 mph n then some. Trying to keep the sup foil board fairly small to do away with dead weight once flying. My current small surf sup is 7í10Ē @ 84 litres.
Ok with the frustration factor of going smaller. The naish website had the xl for rider weighing up to 210 lbs but I now see from their 2020 foil lineup that my 19 xl is coming in middle of the pack size wise in their roster.
When I tried it it was on a 120 litre board with a 4.2m sling wing.

Iíd add the 2000 sq cm size. You should be fine for awhile with that.

supkailua

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #281 on: January 26, 2020, 10:39:17 AM »
Sorry, I have some issues with this emphasis that smaller is so much better.

I watched Windsurfing go that direction with the same emphasis, and finally at my location everyone had such a small board they had to sit on the beach most days.

I am seeing an issue with small boards with new Wing Foilers. They read something about smaller is better, and head out with that small SUP or prone foil board, and they can't even stand on it for a second because the wing keeps blowing them over, so some have decided Wing Foiling is not for them.

Again I have seen the same issue in Windsurfing, they start with too small board or too big sail, they can't even ride the board for 1 second, and determine they are just not cut out for this  sport, when actually it was their equipment causing the issue, not them.

I myself bought a smaller easier to tip over board, and when just learning the wing tried it out, and experienced first hand not being able to stand on the board for even 1 second. A lot could have to do with your location. Choppy water, small boards, and learning the wing are not a good combination. I went to a more stable board and learned how to Wing Foil. Later on I went back to that small board and was able to use it, although if I come down off the wing during a jibe, there is still a better chance I fall in than with my more stable board.

I am 160 lbs. I find if I have enough wind in the wing I can take off fairly easy on my larger board. Maybe the smaller board takes offer a bit sooner, but the key for me is having enough wind in the wing. If there is not enough wind in the wing to create a bit of pull, then I believe no board will take off. Again a lot has to do with your location. Many in this forum are in extremely high wind locations, so there is always a ton of extra wind in the wing.

At my location I advised one person learning who came up and asked for advice to use the largest most stable board possible for the learning period. Once that is over and they can control the wing with ease they can think about moving down in size. I like to make the learning curve as easy as possible and hope people will feel success early on to keep them excited about Wing Foiling.

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #282 on: January 26, 2020, 10:40:15 AM »
Just to illustrate how critical learning the pump is...look at this video again.

The guy on the yellow 5m Swing at 145 lbs on a 5í11 SUP, has been kite foiling for years. So while a newbie to wing ding, heís a good foiler. Yet he has struggled for a while, always having to use huge wing dings sizes, because he has not learned the pump technique. He is also 69 years old.



Caribsurf

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1623
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #283 on: January 26, 2020, 07:11:29 PM »

.....I have a 6í11Ē Jimmy Lewis Flying V and a Neil Pryde Glide Surf large foil .

Board is too big and foil too small to make it easy.

 
Quote
When I learned behind the jet ski I was riding a JL Flying V and Go Foil (not sure what model).  It. Seemed effortless to get up and ride the foil.

That school teaches with the Maliko 200. The biggest, fattest, slowest, instant lift foil ever made.

Dwight  at Good Breeze I also rode my Fanatic 2000 Aero foil  foil on the SkY SUp..much taller mast and longer fuselage and was able to ride that no problem. I think a lot of my problems have to do with current conditions and nerves...once I get back to Fl and get some days on the flat river with good winds, I think I will have success,  Then I can come back here in late February and have some fun.

Thatís funny that the NP Glide Surf L foil is too small because I had a hell of a time finding a bag big enough to bring down here   I canít imagine needing a bigger foil.  By the way what do you charge for lessons?  ;D.

You need the Neil Pryde XL to have a fighting chance. Unfortunately the NP company has been sold. US distribution has been sold. So the XL wings promised to the US market in September never came. Thatís why I, and all my friends, switched to Axis. I suspect the recent dumping of NP foils at $699, was due to the change in ownership/distribution. Australia is having a better time at getting them.

If you switch to Axis...the 1020 is your easiest path to learning to fly.

Here is the deal with winging that trips up lots of newbies to the sport. Even guys with prior foiling experience, but not the best naturally skilled.

Foiling is super efficient. Once airborne, you power up very quickly. To the point of having almost too much power and speed for limited skills. So, for people like this, you ideally want to pop onto foil without needing lots of power from the wing ding. But this takes pumping skill and technique. Not easy to learn.  So the less experienced/skilled need enough wing ding power to just stand on the board like a lump of coal, and let the wind power bring you up to foiling speed. Then you go airborne and freak over the speed boost from the loss of drag. This is why the HUGE foils really help when learning. They help lift the lump of coal.  ;D ;D...yet donít go so fast you freak out. Once you get dialed to this sport, you will want to go fast and you will pump onto foil in a gnat fart.
Hobie Raw 8'10"
Jimmy Lewis Kwad 8'7"
Imagine Snap 8'10"
Coreban Performer 9'3"
Coreban Rocket 10'6"
Hobie 14' race board

Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5006
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #284 on: January 27, 2020, 03:53:49 AM »
ďCannot answer without your weight, wing ding sizes, wind speeds. Live at the Gorge, itís fine. Bigger is easier when learning. Frustration tolerance are all factors.Ē

Iím running at just under 170 lbs, buying a 5m Swing for my Lake Ontario to start. My local beach can be sub 10 to 20 mph n then some. Trying to keep the sup foil board fairly small to do away with dead weight once flying. My current small surf sup is 7í10Ē @ 84 litres.
Ok with the frustration factor of going smaller. The naish website had the xl for rider weighing up to 210 lbs but I now see from their 2020 foil lineup that my 19 xl is coming in middle of the pack size wise in their roster.
When I tried it it was on a 120 litre board with a 4.2m sling wing.

Hi supmmm,

I am your weight and I can tell you for sure that the 5 meter Swing is an amazing choice.  With the right foil kit you can foil in sub 10 MPH.  If you want to get foiling in the lightest side of the range mentioned, you will want a whopper foil.  For me that is the Axis 1020.  I would miss a lot of days without it. 

 


* Recent Posts

post Re: Hi all, - could you help me fill in a quick survey about your SUP race board ?
[Downwind and Racing]
Bean
Today at 06:28:28 AM
post Hi all, - could you help me fill in a quick survey about your SUP race board ?
[Downwind and Racing]
ukgm
Today at 05:50:21 AM
post Gong XL Pro front wing, 55cm Surf stabilizer
[Classifieds]
Thatspec
Today at 02:17:26 AM
post Re: Greece Downwind Surfing Summer 2019
[Downwind and Racing]
dk78
Today at 12:22:42 AM
post Re: Anyone riding Naish Hokua or Mad Dog?
[Gear Talk]
Hail SUPin
February 19, 2020, 02:57:24 PM
post Re: New Naish S25 Wing-Surfer
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Dwight (DW)
February 19, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
post Re: Anyone riding Naish Hokua or Mad Dog?
[Gear Talk]
805StandUp
February 19, 2020, 01:40:21 PM
post Re: wind wing industry is growing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Admin
February 19, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
post Re: New Naish S25 Wing-Surfer
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Wetstuff
February 19, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
post Re: wind wing industry is growing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
JEG
February 19, 2020, 12:12:53 PM
post Re: fs: Fanatic Fly Race Carbon 12í6″ - reduced to $640
[Classifieds]
Dealmaker
February 19, 2020, 11:45:28 AM
post Powerex SUP paddle - Sean Ordonez 78"
[Classifieds]
Dealmaker
February 19, 2020, 11:40:43 AM
post Re: wind wing industry is growing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
river
February 19, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
post Re: Anyone riding Naish Hokua or Mad Dog?
[Gear Talk]
Zooport
February 19, 2020, 11:02:24 AM
post Re: wind wing industry is growing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Wetstuff
February 19, 2020, 10:23:22 AM

* Recent Topics