Author Topic: F-One Swing  (Read 57505 times)

supkailua

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2019, 07:33:57 PM »
Admin, sounds like a great session.

The Swing web page lists the 5 going all the way up to 25 knots of wind. Does anyone have experience with it in 18 to 20 knots or higher? I am trying to understand if 18 to 20 knots is still OK for the 5.0 for someone just learning?

I am confused on board sizes. There are 7'6", 6'6", 5' 10", and smaller. So what size is the best for light winds?

The larger size would float better and higher on the water, but maybe the increased size has more drag. The smaller size might sink a bit so it could have more drag to start but maybe less once some speed is achieved.

From SUP surfing I know the longer boards catch the smaller swells easier and sooner. The long SUP board catches swells that short board riders can't catch. Does the length help when catching swells while getting lifted by the foil?

In my last session I could get foiling fairly easily if I had a swell pushing me at the same time as a gust. You can see it in the water, if the area in front of you is downhill just a bit, it made it easy to go. Coming out against the swells though I could not get going. I am wonder if my long 7'6" board played a part in that. It is not as long as my 10'6" SUP paddle board, but long for a SUP foil board.

Is there an optimum board size in light wind for riders in the 160 lb range?

Right now I am enjoying the stability of the 7'6" board. I have to move my feet at times, and I believe the smaller the board, the more sensitive it becomes to moving the feet, so the 7'6" is probably easier in that regard, but is it keeping me from starting in lighter winds?

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2019, 02:41:55 AM »
It sounds like you are doing great on your 7'6.  Possibly stick with it for a month or two and then when everything feels super comfortable on that board try something smaller.  You will know right away if it adds something. My goal is to keep moving down in size and keeping myself a little uncomfortable while I am still deep in the learning process. 

I used the 5 in 20-25 a few days ago.  It was too much.  I switched straight down to the 3.5 which was much better.  It was pretty nasty wind and we called it pretty early on.  That was not a progress day :).  I think that the manufacturer ranges are a little difficult to use because you have riders of such different sizes.  The 5 may be perfect in those conditions for a 220 lb dude.

supkailua

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2019, 05:28:35 PM »
Admin, that sounds like good advice. Right now I feel I have a lot to work on as I get the feel of the wing and work on jibing in the air. So I have many challenges ahead so adding a smaller board which would be more challenging will be done after I have completed all those other challenges.

For me I want the easiest and earliest take off possible in light winds. If a smaller board provides that then a smaller board is definitely something I will try. If the bigger board provides that, I might stay with the bigger board.

I had a great 3rd session now on the Swing 5, and I think for me my cut off is 20 mph gusts. If it is gusting over 20 mph I need a smaller wing, but from light wind to 20 mph gusts I am OK on the Swing 5. Where I foil the wind normally does not gust over 20 mph so most days will be Swing 5 days.

I tried a harness line today and it was too short. When I was in the harness I had to hold the wing down further and then the tip would hit the water.

I will try a longer line. I admit my arms get tired on the long upwind runs, to the point I feel like turning around to change the forces on my arms. If I could take 90% of that arm pressure away and just use my arms to tweak the position I think I could wing foil for longer.

Keep in mind I have no plans to use a harness when riding the swells and going more down wind. When doing that there is almost no pull from the wing. It is only for the long upwind runs that it would be nice.

I also realize I could point more upwind with a harness, as the more power I have in the wing the more upwind I can point, but again my arms do get tired when doing that.

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2019, 02:48:21 AM »
We get to have our grandkids on the weekends so yesterday we did a group beach day.  That means we bring one board and swap sessions/castle building.  This is a great excuse for me to steal off on Chan's board so that is what we brought.   We stuck the Axis 1020 on it and it was phenomenal.  The knee start is functional and quick enough (it has to be quick :) ) but not always pretty.  Wind was fairly steady 18 with gusts in the low 20's.  That is perfect 3.5 Swing weather for me.  We were at a starboard launch so my first run was on starboard and there was actually some decent foiling in there.  My port run back was my best foiling run ever.  That isn't saying much but I was very proud of it :).  It is really cool to get a little sine wave pump going and not have any nose there to tap.  I still can't get over how cool the flying sensation is.  We are really enjoying the lighter winds so on most days this means we are on empty beaches.  Yesterday was a full solo session for each of us.  Epic.  Full wetsuit in that sunshine was a mistake.  I overheated and my legs gave up too early.  No loss.  I made it in OK and they were just fine for a few hours shell collecting.   
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 02:50:13 AM by Admin »

Slyde

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2019, 10:18:38 PM »
My take after grand total of one session on 4.2 S-wing, 6'6" SUP and Naish 2000 foil. Im 73kg, experienced SUP foiler, Kite foiler and ex windsurfer. Wind was light to begin with less than 10 knots but filled in to maybe 15 knots possibly a little more.
I was up and riding as soon as there was about 12 knots of wind. Could foil both directions switch and regular as far as I wanted. Didnt quite get any foiling transitions. Rode for 2-3 hours. It was a good workout. My triceps were sore the next day. My mate was on a 5m S-Wing in the same wind. He is 10kg heavier than me.. Obviously with experience the top and bottom windrange will increase but I doubt I would want to ride the 4.2 above 20 knots and I bet at 18knots it would be uncomfortable so I reckon comfortable windrange for 4.2 is 12-18 knots. Pretty sure I was able to ride it down to 10 knots at times pumping the foil. My buddy maybe had slightly better low end but not by much because the reality is there were puffs coming through and the puffs were enough for both of us to foil but the lulls were not enough for either of us. I very much doubt the 5m would be comfortable in 20 knots. I would add that after 35 years of windsports I try to be realistic about the true windstrength. Most guys overcall it by 5 knots or more. Im pretty happy with the decison to start with a 4.2 as this will cover the comfortable learning range of 10-20 knots, but I will get a 2.8 for the 25 knot downwind swell stuff that seems so appealing for wind winging.
I also realised that unless you are foiling you will drift downwind pretty fast so I spent my whole session trying to ride back upwind. Whoever said these things point like a kitefoil is way off the mark. Not even close in upwind performance. I made it upwind just fine but had to work for it. A harness will prove useful for upwind beats where the arms feel it more than on a reach.
Gotta say the whole experience reminded my of windsurfing in the 80s when harnesses were outlawed for the olympics. We had our booms high on similar angle to a wing and went about the same speed.
I had alot of fun but as usual the companies talk up the windrange of their product.
Hope this helps those making decisions about wing sizes.

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #80 on: September 24, 2019, 12:32:30 AM »
We had an incredible session in really light wind again.  We are loving that condition.  We checked the spots in the central Gorge and near East but the wind looked gusty and torn up.  iWindsurf was reading 8-12 MPH at Stevenson but it was early with a forecast to build a little and we decided to check it out.  We showed up late morning to an empty beach again and it had cranked way up :) to 9 to 14 MPH (8-12 knots) averaging 12 MPH (gotta love a 5 mph range from gust to lull).  It hung right there for an awesome 2 hours of barely textured bliss.  Chan went on the 4.2 Swing and Axis 920 and I took the 5 Swing and Axis 1020.  Deeelightful.  There were only a few short lulls where it wasn't foilable.  Offside is feeling a lot more comfortable now (possibly due to the awesome wind) but that was the first day that we were really foiling full reaches on our weak sides.  Digging these progress days :)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 12:37:42 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2019, 04:29:01 AM »
Jackyís 920 shipped yesterday. Her shoulder has almost recovered enough to give it a go. I just need to figure out how to get Swings in all sizes  ;D
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 04:32:28 AM by Dwight (DW) »

burchas

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2019, 05:14:51 PM »
Today I matched the Swing 3.5 for the first time with my trusted 15' DW board. 15-20knots.

First pass I tried a daggerboard like fin in the ventral box and 11" pivot fin, ended up a mile off base and had to grind upwind 30+ minutes towing the wing behind.

Second pass I dropped the daggerboard and left the 11" pivot fin. The board was going 5-6mph upwind. After that pass I left the paddle on the beach and went for it.

It seems that with the right fin setup and enough practice it might be possible to go for a traditional DW run (yes, some folks are still at it) without transport.

I have one other toy to match the wing with. That one should be very interesting.
- M15 15x27x4.5 https://bit.ly/2WmuEpt
- Ocean Ripple 16x25 @ 251L
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- Wide Tail 10x31x4 @ 149L
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

PonoBill

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2019, 07:40:32 PM »
I've used the 5M Duotone and the 5M F-one in 25+. At my weight, it's a little much, but I had a blast. The only time either wing got hairy was in big swells. If I remember to bend my knees enough I can slide over the big guys and keep the wing in the water, but as soon as I get a little freaked about the speed I tend to straighten up, and that just doesn't fucking work.

The last time we had good wind at Jensen it was solid 25 on the Washington side, and the F-One was just silly fun. At my weight I can put the wing right over my head, relax my knees, and just go anywhere I want to go. I need to save my jibing practice for less gusty wind though. I did some really spectacular smackdowns. One was so dramatic that I had two kiters come over to check me out and make sure all the accessory parts were still attached.

I think big wings have a lot of range, especially if you're fat. I just routinely pump up the 5M these days, regardless of what the wind is doing. I don't think my 4M has been wet since I got a 5. I think when I get a 6 it will be the routine choice. Skinny folks need to check the wind speed, fatties just pump up the biggest one they've got unless it's totally nuking.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2019, 05:14:49 AM »
I had the 5 meter out in a gusty 18-25 yesterday yesterday with some big holes.  It was light when I rigged and the forecast was for really light but, you get what you get.  The 5 is possible in that wind at my weight but I was definitely way over.  When I am on the right size going momentarily to more overhead with the wing will spill enough air to manage bigger gusts and still drive forward enough to stay foiling but when I am way overpowered, going overhead has a lot of up-pull and even sheeted out it can kill momentum and drop me off a foil.  That was still really fun (and challenging) for a while but after a half hour I went in and put on the 4.2 and the Axis 1000 wing.  That evened everything out a lot.  I could have (and should have) gone straight to the 3.5 but the 4.2 was fine.  It was perfect for the base wind and the lulls but I was still over on the outside where I wanted to be working on Jibes.  I had a few that I liked and a few that got away from me.  For learning new stuff it is really nice to be lightly powered and I don't mind a few minutes of standing around in the lulls to get there. 

In terms of the handles, I don't notice the handles on any wing when I am powered.  They just go away and are not a concern at all.  The only time when they feel floppy to me is when I am significantly underpowered.  When the wing is not really doing its thing and lifting enough and you are in part supporting it with the handles then how rigid they are matters a lot.  If you are holding your hands in a fixed position but the wing is dropping and bending the handles downward that feels awful.  But as soon as it has power that all becomes irrelevant.  I do think there is room for improvement on all of the handles that I have used so far. 

Another observation.  The Swing has the best and worst inflation/deflation system.  They provide a nozzle with each wing that has a rubber gasket and a twist lock.  The valve itself has a push/push on/off button that allows flow.  That combination is awesome for inflation and the hose stays put really well.  On the other hand the wings are a pain to deflate.  The strut holds air and needs to be manually massaged to deflate while keeping the elbow tubing straight.  Not a big deal but there is room for improvement there.

That aside, F-one produced one hell of a first generation product with the Swing.  Compared to some of the early entries it feels like 2nd or 3rd generation.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 05:17:17 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2019, 10:01:14 AM »
Iím with you on the inflation-deflation issues. Having said that, the other brands I tried where worse. Thankfully, the F-one strut inflation hose kinks less, and doesnít have the nasty pinch clamp adding to the hassles.

I think my handles are getting broken in and more comfortable.

PonoBill

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2019, 10:27:54 AM »
I forgot the stiffy handles when I left the shop to go catch a session. I had the boom but no way to attach it and my Duotone was also back at the shop, so I went with the floppy handles. Wow, those suck. Yeah, okay, once you're powered up and the wing is mostly overhead they are tolerable, but barely. Any other time the boom and the stiffies are a huge advantage. You might get used to floppiness, but it's not because it's better. I dipped a tip and flipped the wing in front of me twice in one session. I don't remember the last time I did that with a boom. Very limited control.

I had the stiffies in the shop to measure for some duplicates. I previously measured the gap inside the handles but the carbon inserts wound up being cut and try. I'm going to run off a few so I can keep spares in the wing bag. I don't want to be without them. This run will be prettier--I'm making a mold to put ears on the carbon so they won't rotate on the handle. I'll be better able to use them without the boom and still get most of the benefit. I did miss the ability to one-hand the wing by holding the boom between the 1st and 2nd handles, but I can live without that for the benefit of a small package.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2019, 04:03:35 AM »
As a long term answer having sewn in attachment points (and no fabric handles) will be much better.  You could then attach rigid handles (preferably with a curved strut plate).  Basically find a curved plate (carbon or otherwise) that closely matches the radius of the strut tube and fix the rigid handle to that.  One of those assemblies wherever you want a handle.  That assembly can attach (by any # of methods) to the sewn attachment points.  It would be attached after wing inflation and removed for packing (matter of seconds).  You could also do the same for a boom if you wanted. 

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Re: F-One Swing
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2019, 02:57:33 PM »
First off, new colors.  Raspberry is still the best :)

Second, 360's are a always a great looking move.  They must feel amazing on a foil.  The second one in the vid is really cool because he doesn't backwind at all.  He just luffs it overhead.  So styley.


PonoBill

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Stiffy 2.0
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2019, 04:59:25 PM »
Stiffy 2.0: The handle inserts and pseudo boom I made for my F-One 5M wing work well, except they flip around a bit, and the square edges aren't comfy. We can't have that, so here's stiffy 2.0, an even simpler construction using some paddle cutoffs, Velcro straps, and a bit of hot glue. Even easier to make than the first ones, and from preliminary tests, they work much better. They trap the strap in the hollow between the half shafts and the boom, feel just like a carbon boom, and don't slip. I just cut the shafts longitudinally with a hacksaw and with a strip of tape as a guide, cleaned up the edges on my sander, glued on the straps and done.




Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.