Author Topic: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review  (Read 83453 times)

Luc Benac

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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2020, 03:29:13 PM »
Some data on the Javelin and Maliko.
Left is anything from flat water to upwind to choppy to 25 km day tour.
Push is something like a downbreezer
DW is more wind obviously
Tide is when w ehave a strong tide like 4  meters and a serious push as a result
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2020, 03:31:56 PM »
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.

8” is too small. Too small. Too small. Too small. Too small.

The 10” would be a much better choice than the 8”. I wonder if you are actually losing drive because you are using fins that are too small. Just don’t use wide-based fins for downwind. Having too little fin area, especially low down in the water, actually makes it harder to get into small bumps because the fin is not helping collect the energy and lift from the bump, and you lose forward drive because your rear end moves about too much.

A friend of mine who is a very experienced DWer fitted a thruster setup in his custom DW board. The logic was that he wanted to enhance the turnability of the board. But he found that the board became *less* manoeuvrable not more. This was because fins are there to help you turn, and go forwards, not hinder you. Stick a ridiculously small fin in your Maliko (eg. a 5” surf fin), and you’ll see what I mean - it’s not easier to get into bumps, it’s harder.

Btw, Koalition now make the “boomerang” fin, which is basically extremely similar to the Squirrel Cutaway. Except they are a thinner foil and are lighter, both of which are better for SUPs.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 03:45:51 PM by Area 10 »

Luc Benac

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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2020, 03:36:19 PM »
Squirrel Cutaway 8” is too small. Too small. Too small. Too small. Too small.

That is probably why I ordered a 9" Fat Boy :-)
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Luc Benac

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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2020, 03:42:44 PM »
I wonder if you are actually losing drive because you are using fins that are too small. Having too little fin area, especially low down in the water, actually makes it harder to get into small bumps because the fin is not helping collect the energy and lift from the bump, and you lose forward drive because your rear end moves about too much.

So far it did not feel like it except with the GTM 6.5 (unles it is fairly clean and very small conditions).
My go to fins for now for light conditions are the Sonic (7" depth, 33 sqi) for teh Javelin and the Mako 35 (8.25 depth, 35 sqi) and GTS (7.75 depth, 39 sqi) for the Maliko. Except that the box of teh Maliko and teh Allround are different so I have to pick which one I want to use so for now teh GTS is going for the Allround.

The MFC DW left me a little bit unsure. It felt like more work to keep speed than another fin but on the other hand the average speed was good and there was no issue with tracking. It was just this subtle feeling that at certain time, the board should have "taken-off" and I should have had to go back more. I have been enough on teh Maliko by now to feel that I could have got more from that session. Going across chop was on the other hand quite easy and keeping some speed. That said I have become better at it and for once it could be the paddler be efficient rather than teh equipment :-)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 03:58:26 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2020, 03:52:58 PM »
The Mako 35 is ok for light DW.

Most specialist SUP fins on the market have too wide a base for “proper”  downwinding. And/or they have too little area at the tip.

Link to Koalition. They have international distribution. They are made beautifully, and are a lot cheaper and more durable than eg. the Black Project or VMG fins.

https://koalition-project.com/produit/boomerang-9-0/

If I’m using this type of fin as a single fin I use the 10” unless I’m paddling in just ripples. I use the 9” with 50-50 foil side bites and it is beautiful - low drag plus good tracking and manoeuvrability. If I had a Maliko I’d fit side bite finboxes to it.






« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 03:56:58 PM by Area 10 »

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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2020, 04:01:05 PM »
The Mako 35 is ok for light DW.

Most specialist SUP fins on the market have too wide a base for “proper”  downwinding. And/or they have too little area at the tip.

Link to Koalition. They have international distribution. They are made beautifully, and are a lot cheaper and more durable than eg. the Black Project or VMG fins.

https://koalition-project.com/produit/boomerang-9-0/

If I’m using this type of fin as a single fin I use the 10” unless I’m paddling in just ripples. I use the 9” with 50-50 foil side bites and it is beautiful - low drag plus good tracking and manoeuvrability. If I had a Maliko I’d fit side bite finboxes to it.

Funny I almost pull the trigger on the 9" orange boomerango but at GBP 70 plus shipping it was a little bit too rich (1 Pound sterling equals 1.73 Canadian Dollar!).

https://www.surfsurfsurf.co.uk/longboard-and-retro-surfboard-fins/koalition-boomerang-longboard-surfboard-fin-9-inch-orange

I might not have a Maliko at the end of the season but an option on a Sunova Torpedo........with a properly located fin box.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 04:23:03 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2020, 04:44:48 PM »
Area10, Burchas,
By now you realize that you guys are both experienced downwinder and have both "opposite" approach to (light) downwind fins to some extend :-)
One is going for wide base, surface at the bottom and shorth depth (i.e. Junior Dolphin, GTS)
The other for short base, surface at the top and longer depth (i.e. Squirrel, Fat Boy)

Mako 35 and others are likely somewhere in the middle.

But you guys agree on one point - we want FLEX in our fins :-)

You also agree on side bites for >30 knots

WE shoudl list all teh points that you are agreing and disageing upon and why. That would be a great tool for DW fin selection.
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2020, 11:25:36 PM »
I think it just depends on your local conditions, as with your choice of board. My local conditions are very rippy, with lots of refraction and multiple directions of swell. The bumps are also steep, caused by (often strong) wind acting against strong tides. In those kinds of conditions, wide-based fins tend to get caught by the currents, so you need a narrow base. But at the same time you need some hold to prevent spinning out, and fairly low drag, especially since getting into bumps created by wind acting against currents takes a lot of effort and you have to get well forward on the board to angle it - further forward than most ruddered boards will allow, if you want to have your foot on the tiller. Also, steep short period bumps are surfed pretty much exactly like waves. So it’s handy to be using a longboard fin designed for surfing.

So, squirrel cutaway type fins are a unique combination of characteristics that work really well for these conditions. But as with everything else about downwinding, what is right for you will depend a lot on your conditions. For instance I have been tempted by the thought of getting one of the new SIC Bayonets or Bullets. But bitter experience tells me that high-sided boards round here feel like you are balancing on a log, and the thick rails catch every little bit of cross-wind and messed-up swell going, meaning you are constantly fighting to stay going in the direction you want to.

So I can’t guarantee that the fat boy will be the perfect solution for you. But it is very versatile and strong, and you can use it for surf too. Maybe you’ll want to go back to wide-based fins. But just maybe you will put it in, and like I did, you have a lightbulb moment. This is most likely to happen if your waters are “difficult”. It is a “difficult waters” fin. Many other fins work well in nice little well-mannered ripples, including the Mako with the cutaway (although it is ridiculously expensive and fragile).

I use the 9” Koalition boomerang (which is pretty good value here in the UK) with FCSII carver quad 50-50 foil rears in my Hypr 14 gun. It’s a highly unlikely but crazy good setup for just about everything - surf, downwind, flat water.  Sounds nuts, I know, but it actually works great. You have to be open-minded when it comes to fins, and experiment with a lot of different combinations. I spent an absolute fortune on multiple specialist fins before finding that the much cheaper and more durable squirrel fin that has been around for decades actually works great. The fat boy is also pretty good, and if it fits your finbox perfectly, being able to pull/push it simply in and out is a boon for DW where you might be stacking boards on vehicles etc. But the foil is slightly thicker so it’s a tiny bit more drag than the squirrel cutaway or the boomerang. Still works great though - but reserve judgement until you have a day where the conditions are tricky. That’s when it shines. On a low wind easy-conditions small day you might as well use the small Mako or the SIC 7.0 weedless.

So, in short, I’m not sure there is a difference of philosophy from burchas. I think any apparent differences is more likely because of the different conditions we paddle in. On a nice summer day with a gentle breeze around high tide (when currents are least and water is deepest) I sometimes use the same fins that you have got, and more besides. For instance the FCSII Kalama 9” SUP fin works quite well in my 16ft boards in very light conditions - it’s low drag for its size and doubles as a decent touring fin. So, it’s not as if I only use the fat boy/squirrel design: You match the fin to the conditions, as with surfing.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:01:20 AM by Area 10 »

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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2020, 07:23:30 AM »
My local conditions are very rippy, with lots of refraction and multiple directions of swell. The bumps are also steep, caused by (often strong) wind acting against strong tides. In those kinds of conditions, wide-based fins tend to get caught by the currents, so you need a narrow base. But at the same time you need some hold to prevent spinning out, and fairly low drag, especially since getting into bumps created by wind acting against currents takes a lot of effort and you have to get well forward on the board to angle it

That is pretty much the Squamish Harbor on a windy day, with wind and tide bouncing off the cliffs, river and sand banks. It gets more difficult when the wind abates some and that leaves the churn but not the push. We have both outflow and inflow, sometime in teh same day. The few times I got into some clean aligned  bumps, it was like Heaven and so effortless.
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2020, 09:41:48 AM »
But the foil is slightly thicker so it’s a tiny bit more drag than the squirrel cutaway or the boomerang. Still works great though

In the big picture, how much difference does the thicker foil makes IYHO?

ps:
I just checked base dimensions.
The Boomerango pins would come right at the opening in the middle of the fin box so I woudl have to position the fin in the middle of the box.
The Fat Boy FCSII system will fit in the front of teh box with the fin right at the front. This should more than make it for a thicker foil.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 10:31:29 AM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2020, 02:47:25 PM »
In the big picture, how much difference does the thicker foil makes IYHO?

Depends how much thicker. Too thick and you'll feel like you're towing seaweed. Can shut down your ability to catch bumps but can be useful for control if you're dealing with power.
Too thin and you'll be fighting the fin. I was talking to one of the carbon fin companies sales guy about how they control flex on their downwind fin so he says: "Flex? we have flex fins" He showed me how their fins
are flexing right from the base... ??? So that was a very thin foil.

I gave one of my custom fins done by a specialist to a general water sport manufacturer, told them I want to replicate the fin. The layup was different and they couldn't replicate the intricate foil whiteout grinding too much
material. After two attempt they gave up. Needles to say the difference was noticeable. Foil matters a lot.
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2020, 02:59:26 PM »
Debates about equipment in general are interesting but it's more of disservice to anyone sifting through the thread trying to find helpful tips about the Naish Maliko 2020 in particular or about the Naish Maliko in general since the differences between the boards are incremental year over year.

All my comments are related to my experiences on the Maliko in various conditions, so inline with trying to keep the debate within the context of the thread. This is where I suspect the differences in opinions derived from.
Having access to various types of boards in these conditions gives me some base for comparisons describing the Maliko but only putting the hours on the board really gives one a sense of what may or may not be an accurate assessment imo. Same goes for fins, what may work well on a surfy type of downwind board may not work well on race board such as Maliko.

With this in mind the Dolphin mini 6.5" deep with a 5.75" base and 29sqi area is my go to DW fin for the most part. It might be on the smaller size but it would work for most conditions you'd think about taking the Maliko. when it gets to a point that I can really surf the faces of  the bumps, I'm going to a different board anyway. I would go slightly deeper like 7.5" but I feel that the 5.5"-6" base size is the best compromise between paddling and riding bumps, for this board that is.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 03:01:47 PM by burchas »
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2020, 03:27:25 PM »
Thank you both.
Yes I am looking strictly within the context of the Maliko for downbreezer and downwind in up to 25~30 knots.
Mostly the challenge that the positioning of the fin box at 6" from the tail can represent fro the enjoyment of the board.

The closest I can see for the size of Mini Dolphin I have is the GTM 6.5 x 6.5 28 sqi roughly
I am mostly trying to optimize both end of the range.
Bumps are too valuable to waste :-)

I could likely just put the GTS or the Mako 35 at all time and be happy but if I can get this little bit extra glide on a downbreezer that brings you toward the tail or the added control in 25 knots that allow you link and keep the glide across confused bumps without ending up against a cliff face instead of my landing spot....or stalling and doing the mad elevator

I think that for the summer, I will try the Fat Boy in the whole range and the GTM in the lighter conditions too. I already know that the GTM cannot quite cut it in the steep confused stuff.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 03:29:57 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2020, 03:33:53 PM »
Foil matters a lot.

I do agree. I am just not sure if a small difference in thickness is a totally deciding factor. i.e. "thinner foil are faster" not that it is what you guys have been saying of course.
In any case seing that the Boomerang would not work in my fin box....Fat Boy it is.

Anecdotally, when I ride my Javelin 2014 (an ancestor of the Maliko) I can feel a difference between the SIC 7.0 and the Sonic. The Sonic is a bit faster and the SIC gives a bit more control if down winding. Outside of teh different shape both fins are 7" deep and the SIC is thicker than the Sonic.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 04:02:11 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2020, 04:11:15 PM »
The foil differences between the Fat Boy and the Boomerang aren’t so big as to exclude the fat boy. I use both. Sometimes the convenience of the FCSII click-in system is pretty darned useful on a multi-board, multiple-run DW day. The Fat Boy is also a pretty strong fin. When I’m DWing in over 30 knots I’m usually coming ashore on stones and having to put the board down on tarmac etc., and it can be a real PITA in those situations to have some insanely expensive super-fragile carbon fin. It’s just asking for trouble.

You really should try a 10” fat boy sometime. I know you think it is waaay too much. But I just ask you to be open-minded about it, and give it a try if you get a chance. These fins feel much smaller than they are. The 9” on its own is still a low area setup.

 


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