Author Topic: Axis Foils  (Read 265767 times)

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #675 on: December 28, 2020, 09:16:00 AM »


Where did the 5% come from?

Educated guess :)
The specs indicate the 1050 'should' out glide the 1010 (same stab). Properly loaded the 980 'should' out glide all three. I'm thinking 150# rider would be optimum, been through all this in paragliding. L/D should stay the same regardless of loading but doesn't work that way in the real world.

The vid shows the 1010 and 1050 to have identical glide distance in use.

I'm sure the 1150 will out glide the 1010 by a little at my loading. In this case it appears L/D may have increased on paper but I'm not seeing that in this video.

Hey Axis, if only it was possible to try this stuff before buying :)


Hdip

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #676 on: December 28, 2020, 09:42:42 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSUflTBm3nk

My take on this video. We have to remember he likes really big wings because he's on flat water and mostly just pumping flat water. When he does wake foil it's off the 2nd wake of a JETSKI! He likes the 1010 and says the 910 is to small. The LA guys out here have ridden tons of AXIS gear and none of us would prone surf the 1010, but lots ride the 900/910. So just remember that while watching and size down accordingly.

I think everything he said about the black series seems spot on. It goes along with what other guys are saying about the new generation of gear too. Progression project talking about the Kujira or Lift HA says it takes a bit more energy to pump because you have to keep the speed up, but you cover so much more ground it's actually more efficient to get over to the next peak and hunt down the connection.

Initial lift is less. Didn't Ponobill talk about this just the other day. New wings are being tuned for more speed. We have the wings that work in 1to2andfiring™ . Now we need wings that work in faster speeds, so they're going to have less initial lift.

Wingboards have fixed that issue by having tons and tons of volume. If it's super windy you can ride a sinker prone board, but most guys are on big 4 inch + boards so that they get board planing speed. In a lot of his other video's he changes to a thicker board to do the bungee start instead of that 21ish liter board he used in this video. I was surprised just a quick jump on made so much difference. It didn't even change the initial speed very much, just kept him on the surface instead of immediately sinking when he stood off the dock.

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #677 on: December 28, 2020, 11:36:01 AM »
The specs indicate the 1050 'should' out glide the 1010 (same stab). Properly loaded the 980 'should' out glide all three.

At winging speeds, the glide is kind of outrageous.  By that I mean, fling it onto a swell and see what happens.  It carries a ton of speed like that and modulating that speed is more of an issue.  I think that is very different than testing glide falloff from pump power.  Same out of a jibe.  If you stay on your front foot it won't slow down.  It is nuts like that.  It takes some getting used to.  It also foils up super early for me .  I imagine guys at my weight will find the same.  Lastly, it accelerates like crazy.

The cons are, the turns are consistent but deliberate.  I wouldn't buy this as a turner or as a learn to jibe wing.  Fine for any redirection going downwind but nowhere near the 760 or 860 in the bank-at-will department.  Also, It is a bit large for me so top speed is hard to realize.  That is actually a low priority for me. 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 11:39:57 AM by Admin »

Phils

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #678 on: December 28, 2020, 02:55:27 PM »
The specs indicate the 1050 'should' out glide the 1010 (same stab). Properly loaded the 980 'should' out glide all three.

At winging speeds, the glide is kind of outrageous.  By that I mean, fling it onto a swell and see what happens.  It carries a ton of speed like that and modulating that speed is more of an issue.  I think that is very different than testing glide falloff from pump power.  Same out of a jibe.  If you stay on your front foot it won't slow down.  It is nuts like that.  It takes some getting used to.  It also foils up super early for me .  I imagine guys at my weight will find the same.  Lastly, it accelerates like crazy.

The cons are, the turns are consistent but deliberate.  I wouldn't buy this as a turner or as a learn to jibe wing.  Fine for any redirection going downwind but nowhere near the 760 or 860 in the bank-at-will department.  Also, It is a bit large for me so top speed is hard to realize.  That is actually a low priority for me.

Just to be clear Admin, you are referring to the 980 and not the 1050?  Have to tried any of the other black series foils?

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #679 on: December 28, 2020, 04:09:49 PM »
Hi Phils,

Yes, the 980.  This is a big foil for 175ish guys for winging.  I plan on using it as my lightest wind foil.  I haven't tried any other black fuse foils yet.   We are going to get the 930, 890 and 810 when those are available as well as the two smaller high aspect tails.  What?  Who said that?

liv2surf

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #680 on: December 28, 2020, 05:22:32 PM »
Are the 'black series' 980 and 1050 in the same family (as the 910 and 1010 are related to one another) or are they completely different wings?

I am looking forward to when these wings will be released and described in the open. I guess we are starting to see more complete descriptions such as Foiling NY video on 1050 etc.
5'6 Quatro Wingdrifter Pro 105L; Cabrinha Mantis 3.1m, 4m, 5m and 6m; Axis 1000 (1150, 1020); Project Cedrus 91 cm carbon mast (68 cm fuse, 440/5000 rear); 9'6" CRUZ Surf foil SUP (152L); Chinook Thrust 92 Paddle -- fixed 78" length; 'prone' longboards on the rack, kites in the garage.

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #681 on: December 28, 2020, 05:36:08 PM »
What?  Who said that?

Probably Chan, logging in as you. I know she loves spending money on foil gear. Who needs new shoes when you can get an 810 black?

Black is the new Red. I know this fashion shit.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #682 on: December 28, 2020, 06:47:35 PM »
Are the 'black series' 980 and 1050 in the same family (as the 910 and 1010 are related to one another) or are they completely different wings?

I am looking forward to when these wings will be released and described in the open. I guess we are starting to see more complete descriptions such as Foiling NY video on 1050 etc.

All the HPS line fits the back fuselage. HPS is 1050, 980, 930, 880...all thin fast foils with some curve in the tips. Nothing like the 910, 1010, 1150.

The smallest sizes in the new Broad Spectrum line also fit the black fuse. To me, this lineup is an improved surf line. Think of it as an updated more modern thinking version of the original surf line.


liv2surf

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #683 on: December 28, 2020, 07:08:06 PM »
Discussion of Black Series from Nov-Dec on Seabreeze.au. 

Last post today (page 4) is Larry Foiler unboxing of 700, 810, 890 and 980 wings. For those that have seen this thread or don't care, please excuse my post.

An earlier post in same thread (bottom page 1) shows pictures overlaying 980 to 1010 and 1150

Actually, I can't summarize it all ... but lots of good stuff here for people interested in real world performance of black series.

https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/Axis-new--B--series-foils-and-980-front-wing?

5'6 Quatro Wingdrifter Pro 105L; Cabrinha Mantis 3.1m, 4m, 5m and 6m; Axis 1000 (1150, 1020); Project Cedrus 91 cm carbon mast (68 cm fuse, 440/5000 rear); 9'6" CRUZ Surf foil SUP (152L); Chinook Thrust 92 Paddle -- fixed 78" length; 'prone' longboards on the rack, kites in the garage.

Phils

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #684 on: December 29, 2020, 02:34:06 AM »


Where did the 5% come from?

Educated guess :)
The specs indicate the 1050 'should' out glide the 1010 (same stab). Properly loaded the 980 'should' out glide all three. I'm thinking 150# rider would be optimum, been through all this in paragliding. L/D should stay the same regardless of loading but doesn't work that way in the real world.

The vid shows the 1010 and 1050 to have identical glide distance in use.

I'm sure the 1150 will out glide the 1010 by a little at my loading. In this case it appears L/D may have increased on paper but I'm not seeing that in this video.

Hey Axis, if only it was possible to try this stuff before buying :)

"Foiling NY" is a great guy (I have had lots of communication with him and he is very gracious about answering questions and being open to critique) whose videos are getting a lot of attention because they are a serious attempt to objectively compare the performance of different foils.  Almost everything else you see online is subjective.  However, his methodology is far from perfect and one has to be careful in interpreting his conclusions.  Take his glide test.  My first concern/question is the SPEED at which he starts the glide.  It has to be consistent for the result to be meaningful.  Even if we assume he is consistent with the speeds, what is his test really measuring and does it translate to what we care about when we assess a foil?  It gets pretty technical but one can simplify things and say he is "measuring" the interaction of drag vs stall speed.  But that measurement in isolation is not that useful for us because we never glide in the kind of flat, protected water that he does.  We glide downwind and there are always tiny or bigger bumps of moving water that give some push as we are gliding.   So for us, we care about acceleration, drag and stall speed.  The newer wings have better acceleration and that is something his glide test does not factor in.

Having said all that, I recently got a 1010 and it's combination of low stall speed and high L/D makes it amazing for low wind winging.  I have tried other makes of high aspect wings but they have too high stall speeds for low wind winging.  They work better for surfing, which most of them are designed for.

According to Adrian, the 1050 and 1010 have identical thickness but the 1050 has less camber so it needs higher speeds to create the same lift but has less drag.  So you trade stall speed for drag. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 02:45:27 AM by Phils »

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #685 on: December 29, 2020, 06:58:47 AM »
If you like the 1010 you'll love the 1150. I have both and never use the 1010 anymore. Anything the 1010 does the 1150 does better. It even turns better. Spooky good wing.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

liv2surf

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #686 on: December 29, 2020, 09:07:33 AM »
If you like the 1010 you'll love the 1150. I have both and never use the 1010 anymore. Anything the 1010 does the 1150 does better. It even turns better. Spooky good wing.

Yeah, the 1150 is absolutely my go to wing. I also have 1020 and just got 1000 (but haven't used it yet)
5'6 Quatro Wingdrifter Pro 105L; Cabrinha Mantis 3.1m, 4m, 5m and 6m; Axis 1000 (1150, 1020); Project Cedrus 91 cm carbon mast (68 cm fuse, 440/5000 rear); 9'6" CRUZ Surf foil SUP (152L); Chinook Thrust 92 Paddle -- fixed 78" length; 'prone' longboards on the rack, kites in the garage.

Wetstuff

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #687 on: December 29, 2020, 09:20:42 AM »
Phils,  I too really like our upstate New York icebreaking friend.  I appreciate the effort he takes in controlling the variables and presenting the information.  I wonder (not just with him) when/if increased time-in-the-saddle makes you a progressively better rider, which alters the results creating an impression it's the stuff below your feet that is making the difference.

Conversely, I believe have seen people test boards where their skills seemingly have plateaued and likely do not equal the board's potential. It may be that some people are unable to optimize their gear and therefore then to blame the horse. 

Nonetheless, it's a great time to live to see this amidst the chaos in other parts of our existence.

Jim
Atlantis Mistress .. Blue Planet MultiTasker ..   Atlantis Venom

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #688 on: December 29, 2020, 11:44:11 AM »
I appreciate the effort he takes in controlling the variables and presenting the information.

Agreed Jim,
I like his methodology. I can go back through past tests and compare. That little white buoy is always in the same place. And we weigh about the same. I think he's good enough at it now to show fairly small differences in gear.

The only variable I see is the amount of time he might spend on a setup really dialing it in before testing.

I never wanted for better performance last summer than my 1010/390 setup. I may try a 420 tail but don't see myself going black. Couldn't live with the increased stall speed and don't have any use for speeds over 20mph. 99% of my time riding waves downwind I'm going 6-15mph. If I was downwind racing I'd be much more interested but I'm in no hurry  :)

deja vu

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #689 on: December 30, 2020, 10:27:04 AM »
A request:  Would someone with experience with the Axis 980 wing please list the positives and negatives of this wing in comparison with other wings they may have owned (i.e. Armstrong 1850 or 1250, Moses 1100, Slingshot i84 or i76, etc.).

I'm looking for new winging (and windfoiling) foils so thanks in advance for any info.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 10:28:38 AM by deja vu »

 


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