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Author Topic: Axis Foils  (Read 218099 times)

Admin

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #645 on: December 25, 2020, 07:15:17 AM »
Some of the magic is coming from how thin this is and another bit  is coming from low angles.

I finally did some measuring (with no shim). 

The 980 front wing has an incidence of +.54 degrees.  This is notable.  That is 1/2 of a degree !

The 420 rear wing has an incidence of -1.91 degrees (on the black fuselage only).

The 390 rear wing has an incidence of -2.15 degrees (on the black fuselage only).

The angle difference is 2.45 degrees for the 980/420 and is 2.69 degrees for the 980/390.

We are in a new land.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 08:25:02 AM by Admin »

Admin

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #646 on: December 25, 2020, 08:21:12 AM »
For comparison I also measured my 860 and the same 390 on the red fuselage. 

The 860 front wing incidence is at 2.58 degrees
The 390 tail incidence is -2.51 degrees
The angle difference is 5.09 degrees.

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #647 on: December 25, 2020, 08:39:32 AM »
Interesting stuff Admin, thanks! Haven't the tools to measure this.

Admin

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #648 on: December 25, 2020, 08:48:27 AM »
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 09:28:08 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #649 on: December 25, 2020, 10:00:03 AM »
Almost all the Axis Wing/stabilizer combinations I've measured are 5 degrees or thereabout. Most other manufacturers use something like 3 degrees for general use and less (as little as 1 degree) for higher performance wings. I'm not sure why Axis does this, a good question for Adrian. I shim all my Axis combinations to 3 degrees, which requires a 2-degree shim in the front stabilizer screw. I have to get a higher speed to lift off, but once I'm up they don't porpoise, even with the spectrum of fuselages I have--standard to ultra-short--and I can trim the board flat with relatively light front foot pressure.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Alysum

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #650 on: December 26, 2020, 04:57:41 PM »
Almost all the Axis Wing/stabilizer combinations I've measured are 5 degrees or thereabout. Most other manufacturers use something like 3 degrees for general use and less (as little as 1 degree) for higher performance wings. I'm not sure why Axis does this, a good question for Adrian. I shim all my Axis combinations to 3 degrees, which requires a 2-degree shim in the front stabilizer screw. I have to get a higher speed to lift off, but once I'm up they don't porpoise, even with the spectrum of fuselages I have--standard to ultra-short--and I can trim the board flat with relatively light front foot pressure.

Interesting.... Sounds like axis are making their foils slower by making them too lifty and beginner friendly. Partly why I'm considering switching to another brand for proper speed.

flkiter

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #651 on: December 26, 2020, 05:46:37 PM »
Almost all the Axis Wing/stabilizer combinations I've measured are 5 degrees or thereabout. Most other manufacturers use something like 3 degrees for general use and less (as little as 1 degree) for higher performance wings. I'm not sure why Axis does this, a good question for Adrian. I shim all my Axis combinations to 3 degrees, which requires a 2-degree shim in the front stabilizer screw. I have to get a higher speed to lift off, but once I'm up they don't porpoise, even with the spectrum of fuselages I have--standard to ultra-short--and I can trim the board flat with relatively light front foot pressure.

Interesting.... Sounds like axis are making their foils slower by making them too lifty and beginner friendly. Partly why I'm considering switching to another brand for proper speed.

HPS is anything but slow. Axis is making fast foils, easy predictable foils, surfy lose and great stuff to pump around on. Plus several rear wings coming to help speed up the foils in strait aways and turns.

clay

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #652 on: December 26, 2020, 06:02:13 PM »
Almost all the Axis Wing/stabilizer combinations I've measured are 5 degrees or thereabout. Most other manufacturers use something like 3 degrees for general use and less (as little as 1 degree) for higher performance wings. I'm not sure why Axis does this, a good question for Adrian. I shim all my Axis combinations to 3 degrees, which requires a 2-degree shim in the front stabilizer screw. I have to get a higher speed to lift off, but once I'm up they don't porpoise, even with the spectrum of fuselages I have--standard to ultra-short--and I can trim the board flat with relatively light front foot pressure.

Interesting.... Sounds like axis are making their foils slower by making them too lifty and beginner friendly. Partly why I'm considering switching to another brand for proper speed.

Interesting.  To me this echoes the idea of how much foils are personal preference, combined with body type and riding style.  I have only ridden Axis HA and haven't felt the need to shim anything nor have I experienced porpoising.

Thinking of the Kujira foil and how folks are wedging to get the front wing to have more angle of incidence.  Wondering if anyone has tried reverse wedging Axis HA wings?
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

paddlur

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #653 on: December 26, 2020, 06:16:12 PM »
For me my liking of axis foils is the simplicity,quality, and many options,and of coarse the performance!all my axis wings just bolt on and away we go keep it simple sailors,we ainít racing Ferraris here
Naish kites-mhl lift foils-GoFoil-ASD surfboards fortaleza brasil,Kalama supfoil.AXIS foils

Admin

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #654 on: December 27, 2020, 12:58:18 AM »
Also, keep in mind that the new Black Series is at about 2.5 degrees lower angle (difference) than the reds with the wings I have measured and many riders are already shimming them back to a higher degree difference again.  With a 1 degree down-shim they are shimming back to 3.5 degrees.  The red series is at a 5 degree "Native" difference with the wings I have measured and many riders shim them to flatten a degree or 2, which puts you at the same angle difference (4 or 3 degrees) as the Black shimmed i the opposite direction.  Both are tunable to that common range. 

I wish I had some wings from the other series to measure.  It is possible for instance that not all of the front wing series (or even within a series) have matched incidence with one another, even on the same fuselage.  Who knows what we have coming with the slew of wings that are expected in spring.  My guess is that we are going to see the black series all have front wing incidence about .5 degree which is super low.  From there a 2 degree up-shim of the tail and you are at a .5 degree difference, if you were to want that.  That should be low enough for anyone :). Shit, you could shim it to .001 degrees and set your balls on fire.  It may take a half mile to get flying and it may be squirrely as all get out, but...balls on fire. 

I know that I am going to flatten the tail more that I am using with the 980 when I get down to Baja.  Ditching the 1 degree shim was a great first step but I am going to try 1 degree flatter again and see if that is even better.  The pulsing is gone now but the lift still feels too much and stability is still great so I am pretty sure flatter again will be better. 

It is also easy to focus just on the incidence, but that angle is just one piece of the puzzle.  Down 1 degree with a huge 500 tail is a very different result than down the same 1 degree with a 340 or a 460. With Axis we have a ton of options there.  You can change tail incidence, go with a thinner tail, go with a smaller tail or any combination of those.  The most efficient way of getting there may take a little tweaking.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 03:50:14 AM by Admin »

Alysum

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #655 on: December 27, 2020, 03:29:04 AM »
So today I tried the Unifoil hyper 210 with the carve tail. I realise this is an Axis thread which is what I own but I think it is worth having this discussion to compare....

The Unifoil is a bloody nice full carbon kit, soooo light. When I jumped on it, I couldn't believe how LOOSE it is, i've never carved that hard just by wiggling my toes (no joke) before with any axis foils whether it's with kite or wing and I have so many wings. It felt incredibly stable too, zero breaching, didn't experience any of this "hobby horsing" pitching I experienced with the black series. I think the Unifoil tail which is mounted from the bottom helps.

The bad news for Unifoil is, it's nowhere as fast or gliding as the black series 980 which I tried over 3 days. So when I was done with the Unifoil I went back out on my Axis 1000/390, this is where I realise what the problem with Axis is. The 19mm mast is draggy as f--k. Even with the 390 tail I could not carve hard at all (short fuselage), everything I tried to do felt delayed. Axis foil feels very much locked into the water pulling an anchor. I am what I'd consider advanced intermediate foiler. I need something loose like the Unifoil but with the speed of the black series. I think the Unifoil carbon mast has a lot to do with how nervous it felt.

I know Axis have more carbon masts coming but they are not light at all, I picked up one and was frankly shocked how heavy it is. The fuselage is so heavy too and they won't do a carbon fuselage. Yes the 980 is fast but it doesn't turn well, it "skids" (hard to explain this). Axis needs to make more pro foils, lighten their mast and offer a full carbon kit with fewer screws then I can die happy ;-)

A semi frustrated foiler still looking for the ultimate foil  ;D
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 03:34:37 AM by sydney.winger »

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #656 on: December 27, 2020, 03:56:39 AM »
V2 Carbon masts are coming soon.  I love the 2020 model so this is exciting.  This is a huge year for drag reduction.

Thinner, faster, lighter, snappier than 2020 model.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #657 on: December 27, 2020, 04:05:23 AM »
V2 Carbon masts are coming soon.  I love the 2020 model so this is exciting.  This is a huge year for drag reduction.

Thinner, faster, lighter, snappier than 2020 model.

And slotted base holes. I have one, a 86cm prototype.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 04:15:55 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #658 on: December 27, 2020, 04:56:39 AM »
Did the measurements on the Gong Veloce XL and 430 V tail as per Admins method.

Front wing is set at .58, rear at 1.53 for a 2.11 dif

The L is probably a better comparison for size to something like the 980 but the XL is what I have.

Front wing 17mm thick, rear 6mm, volume 1.35L, area is 1520cm2 span 94cm
The large is like 15mm, rear 6mm, volume 0.95L, area is 1214cm2 (both projected but they're practically flat)

So these things are super thin and low volume as well as being trimmed pretty flat. Unfortunately I can only speculate how they work. I like the sort of mid-aspect ratio though. Think it will turn well and be pretty forgiving.

Admin

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #659 on: December 27, 2020, 06:26:03 AM »
Front wing is set at .58, rear at 1.53 for a 2.11 dif

That is super cool to know.  I am going to try the 980 up-shimmed to both a 2 and a 1.5 degree difference with the 420 and the 390 and see how those work.

Thanks for posting that!

 


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