Axis Foils

[PonoBill]

That thing looks ridiculously small as it is, and yes, yesterday was horrible conditions, but fun in an "I can't believe I can do this" way. It's not hard to remember when we were spending half the time in a session on our knees since it was only months ago.

[paddlur]

Paddlur,
You're going to love that 920 if you like the 1020 on the wing. Faster, smoother and more top end speed.

You called that one Flkiter really like the 920 for my style just need a little bit more wind than the 1020 does obviously but all the characteristics you mentioned to the T and the turning glide in the waves is real nice pleasantly surprised as I got it for supfoiling primarily with my axis setup and didn’t really think it would be a winging wing but just a real nice big guy compliment wing to my 1020 in the ocean,surprised don’t hear much about the 920?for me it’s a excellent dual purpose supfoil and winging wing,and for riders who are not the biggest fans of HA wings in the waves,myself included stoked on the 920!

[flkiter]

Glad you liked it paddlur, that 920 is great for a one wing quiver. It's my most recommended for those that want a one foil set up for wing/sup, great fun with wind or wave power. I still get on my 920 all the time.

[PonoBill]

Now I’m wondering what the next size down has to offer.  Is the 660 too small or just right for smaller riders?

Did my first ride on the 860 yesterday afternoon. The wind would have worked for my 3.5M F-one, but I took my battered 4.2M since I thought I might need the oomph (technical term) to get that little wing to fly. At the end of the session i was thinking i should have bought the 760. So yeah, I think the 660 is probably fine for you.

[Admin]

Here is me a few days ago on the Axis 760 with a 390 tail and the 960 mast and an overpowered 4.2 at Stevenson.  This was a hysterical session.  I wanted to try my new drone but the follow me function doesn't work at all for winging.  So I decided to park the drone in a safe place (hovering over a pylon) and set it to film a fairly empty area of water.  I launched from an unoccupied area and flew the drone into position.  So now I am about 5 minutes into a a pretty short battery window (how long depends on how hard the drone has to fight the wind and it was already gusting to 30).  I get my gear together, get down the stairs, swim out through the weeds, and wing downwind to my spot.  I wing there for a few minutes and the drone takes off.  Ugh Oh!  Emergency Return to Home already?  So I get back as soon as I can, get out of the water, and retrieve the drone from a (thankfully soft) tree.  That would all have been fine if the footage were good, but, I was a microscopic spec in a lovely 4K scene.  What you see here is a frame zoomed to 10X and moved around in the larger scene.  Anyways, once I put the drone away I rerigged to 3.5 and had a great session.

[Thatspec]

It's a great perspective Admin, looking good there! I think 8-15' off the water is the Ideal viewing spot, especially looking perpendicular to the wind through big waves . We're getting to that point in the year though where you'd have to look North to see anything because of glare.

[styleito]

Axis 660/400     ~130lb rider.


The wind started howling the other day after I already had a couple of good sessions. So, I thought i might as well try switching my 920 for the 660. I was really pessimistic about my chances of success but, surprisingly, it popped up on foil pretty easily and off I went. I rode fine until time to gybe. It was my weak side gybe where I switch feet before the carve. As soon as I started to move my feet, it was like trying to stand on a wet bar of soap. Strong side gybes, were I switch feet after the carve were more manageable but, not as easy as with the 920. After a while, I started having better luck with gybes by flying my wing over my head and hanging weight from it while switching. But I still crashed a lot more than I would on the 92.

Overall, It worked fairly well. Those that don't switch stance my not have any issues at all.
Top end speed seemed about the same as the 92. Maybe turned a little tighter. Maybe a little quicker to accelerate. Definitely way less stable.
For me, I"ll keep it as I high wind option. Aside from that I don't think it has any advantage over the 92.

[PonoBill]

I agree style, my 860 experience is similar though we probably have a substantial weight difference. At 215# my comparison would be 860 to 1020. I loved the smooth way the 860 skates around, and if I commit to a turn it works OK, but the 1020 is much easier to complete a turn with. The 860 does a lot of stuttering, even when I'm not particularly high in the air. What I felt might just be some grass on the wing, or perhaps I hit some floating clumps, but it happens fairly often. And of course, I don't get lift at low speed like the 1020/920 offers, so if I lose too much speed in the turn I come down quickly.

I think it's a wing I'm going to need a fair amount of time on to really get. I recently sold both my 1020 and 920, in part to keep myself from using an easier wing. I want to push up the speed I take turns with, I think it's the best way for me to make consistent foiling jibes and tacks. I also think the 860 is surprisingly good for downwind--mostly because it recovers well from overfoiling. I've never saved an overfoil on a 1020, but it happens somewhat automatically with higher aspect wings. Not reliably so yet, I still manage to faceplant a few times per session, but I skittered down the face of a big swell last night with the wing breaching and re-engaging several times. That was pretty cool.

[styleito]

I want to push up the speed I take turns with, I think it's the best way for me to make consistent foiling jibes and tacks.

When I want a fast, tight turn, I tend to keep some wind in my wing (like Alan Cadiz pictured below).
Powering rather than gliding thru the carve. Maybe that's why I didn't notice much difference in speed between the 92 and the 66.

[Admin]

I haven't tried the 660 yet but with the 760 (and 860 to a lesser degree) it allows your feet to move noticeably more on the centerline (if they aren't already there).  It actually wants your feet there.  It is pretty much my surf stance.
 We have been riding big wings at nearly or over a meter wide and our stances and pressure mindset have adjusted to that.  Some of those big wings have a lot of meat and lift way out there and it takes a lot of leverage to get that turning.  Enter wide offset stances.  As the wings get narrower and the tips are lifting less it takes way less to initiate a turn.  That can be initially surprising but as you relax into it and make a few body adjustments it becomes awesome.  I am sure there is a low limit where beautifully narrow becomes painfully narrow and it takes constant work to tame it.  The 760 is definitely on the good side of that for me.  I am going to try it and the 660 on the standard fuselages (arrived yesterday) and see how that goes. The 860 for me feels awesome on the short fuselage and the 900 is staying on the ultra short. 

In terms of speed the 760, 860 and 900 are all quick wings.  The 760 is silly fun.  I can't max it out.  The 920 and 1020 are almost perfect relaxed, flowy wings.  Super confidence inspiring and mellow in nature.  There is a point, though, when they just start to resist.  It is not a jarring stop but more like a slow back tug.  The big issue with those wings is that they generate so much early and easy lift that they tend to overfoil in our swell and current (and particularly when accelerating on a faster swell).  When it gets wild it takes full concentration to keep those foils wet.  The smaller wings (760, 860) seat in beautifully and never really blow through.  My confidence in carrying speed through really beat up water has increased a lot with these wings.

[Admin]

It's a great perspective Admin, looking good there! I think 8-15' off the water is the Ideal viewing spot, especially looking perpendicular to the wind through big waves . We're getting to that point in the year though where you'd have to look North to see anything because of glare.

I am still hopeful for a firmware update that gets "active track" working for winging.  It just won't recognize us as a subject yet.  It is frustrating because active track works incredibly well for boats, cars, and people (on land).  Maybe the Skydio 2 when those become more widely available. 

[PonoBill]

I've been using my 1150 when the wind is too light to get up on the 860, and the 860 for everything else. As much as I like the 1000 and the 900, the 860 is just too delightful to pass up in favor of whatever the 1000/900 excel at. And the 1150 is more fun than the 1010. This is a very strange quiver--the two wings couldn't be much more different. The 1150 looks like the wing off a sailplane, and the 860 looks like a miniature Corsair fighter plane wing. The 1150 is flat, and the 860 is a gullwing with pronounced anhedral. The 860 is less than three feet wide and the 1150 is almost 4 feet. 860 is 1212 square cm projected area, the 1150 is 1713 square cm.

Miles apart, but weirdly complimentary, at least for my size and skill level.

[Admin]

I think I have pared it down to one setup now.  With the addition of the Standard fuselage, the 760 front with the 390 tail and the 960 mast is covering all conditions from the lightest 5.0 to the strongest 2.8.  I don't really need my 6.0 any more with this kit. 

If you already own the Axis system stuff you really owe it to yourself to try this one.  It is a mind blower.

I did a session on the 660 but didn't find love.  It is hard to think of the 60's (860, 760, 660) as a series because they are fairly different.  The 660 is dihedral overall while the other two are anhedral.  So, while they are all double concave to various degrees (a concave on each side of the center spine) if you were to rest them on a flat surface the 660 will rock on the spine (about 2 cm) from side to side while the other two will rest on the wingtips with the spine elevated by over a cm (the height of that elevation varies from the 760 to the 860).  The 660 is also much lower aspect than the other two.

This makes the 660 really want to be committed to one side or another and you can feel it distinctly fall over the edge.  Even when you are riding flat you need to have an edge in mind.  The wing is already only 26 inches wide (compared to 30 inches and 34 inches with the 760 and 860) but this dihedral really accentuates that narrow feeling.  Some of this may be user specific for me at 6'2, 175 with size 13 feet.  I am interested to see how Chan likes it at 5'3 115 with size 6.  It may be just right for her.  If not, she loves the 760 as well so we will get another of those and sell all  of the other wings.

One other point of interest.  The thickness on all three of these and the 900 at the center spine feels very similar or the same (the jaws on my caliper are not deep enough to measure exactly but it is very close).  I think this is a limitation of the Axis fuselage head which is just under an inch thick.  Because they need that depth and some material below it to screw through, they really cannot go thinner right there.  I am not sure how beneficial (if at all) it would be to go thinner at that central area but it does appear that the hard limit would be at just over an inch thick with this fuselage design.

[Hdip]

I own a 900 and have a demo 760 at the moment. Have you noticed the 760 is easier to pump up at slow speeds. Sometimes when trying to pump the 900 up on slow waves it’ll just fall through the water and not grab. You need a bit of forward speed before you can pump it. The 760 is more like an older surf wing where you can aggressively pump it earlier to kick into slow waves.

So far the 760 is a high performance short board to the mid length 900. I’m probably keeping the 760 and may sell the 900.

Can you compare the 760 v 860 anymore?

[PonoBill]

I think I'm too heavy for the 760, but I guess I should try it. Most of the wings I thought would never work for me (1000, 900, etc.) I now consider more than adequate. I just need to get them going faster before I take off. I'm going to try the long fuselage and 390 tail if the wind cooperates today. Early indications are that we're gonna have another nuclear day.