Author Topic: Axis Foils  (Read 120011 times)

Keys Sup

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #285 on: July 12, 2020, 11:51:59 AM »
While looking up Hexalobe info found that the M8-70 ISO 14581 takes a T45 not the T40 like the M8 DIN 965. Made the mistake of thinking all M8 screws had the same Torx size bit.

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #286 on: July 12, 2020, 02:15:10 PM »
Weirdness abounds in the fastener world.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Admin

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #287 on: July 12, 2020, 04:19:33 PM »
Two amazing days here that feel like a new chapter in foiling for me.  Yesterday, I set out to make friends with the Axis 1000.  I had ordered a 390 tail a few weeks ago which I had not used yet.  Yesterday was day one.  My understanding of that tail is that it has less downward angle than the earlier tails and therefore gives the front foil a lower angle of attack.  Less drag to take off and quicker overall.  I had hoped that this would minimize the initial jump and stall that I had been finding with the 1000.  It does that really well.  It took me a half hour to unlearn my 1000 habits.  After that I had the most amazing 3.5 Swing session (22 to 35).  I was pretty well convinced after that session that the 1000/390 was my new go-to kit, but I was wrong. 

That was a chunky 3.5 day.  Today was 15-17 mph base wind.  I wanted to see if the 1000/390 would work in that lighter air as well.  Whoo!  Such a fun session.  It took off super smooth and easy and was just an incredible pleasure to ride.  All of the jerkiness and stop and go stuff that I had experienced with the deep diver tails was gone.  So now I am very stoked and I start thinking about the 900 which is getting lonely in the car.  I am wondering what the 390 will do for that little beauty.  I go in, do a quick swap, give the 1000 to Bill for a test, and off we go.  Well holy shit.  First I watch Bill from shore.  He slides up on a foil like he was on an escalator - in really light wind.  Then I get started on the 900 and, same freaking thing.  We were screaming like idiots out there for another hour and a half. 

The 900/390 is beyond epic.  It is super quick, accelerates, pumps and pivots like crazy.  Best yet, it carves a turn like a surfboard.  None of that resistance or delay that you get with the wider beefier wings.  This is where its at. 

I did order another 900 for Chan, because she is going to need one and I ordered a couple more 390's because I don't want to use anything else now, and some ultra short fuselages for good measure.  I had previously though that the 900 at 1184 square cm would pretty much be a high wind only foil but now I am considering it my number one for good 5.0 and above.  I am actually wondering how it feels with a powered 6. 

Coupled with the 96 cm carbon mast the 900/390 feels hysterically low drag.  I was fully buzzed when I got out of the water.  This keeps getting better :).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:44:45 PM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #288 on: July 12, 2020, 05:00:59 PM »
I asked for more sizes of the 390. I think I could go smaller with the 900.

Jacky runs the 390 on the 920 and 900. I run it on the 1000.

I was running the 390 with 1020, but after some back to back testing in uber light wind, I backed off that idea. While it pumped great with the 390 on it, it did give up power at the absolute limits of low end. Need more 390 sizes. One larger, one smaller.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 05:06:45 PM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #289 on: July 12, 2020, 06:53:30 PM »
My hands and arms feel like they belong to someone else, but that was crazy fun. I was using a 440 tail, but it's shimmed to just under 3 degrees, and felt fine. I just went and spent a stupid amount of money on the Axis site for a carbon mast, short fuselage, 1000 and 900 wings and a 390 tail. I should have just stolen Admin's 1000 and called it good. Stoke is hard on the wallet.

In that light wind I thought the 1000 was going to be impossible to get up, but the low drag let me build a lot of speed on the water. You can't get sloppy and let it stall--it won't recover. You just bang back down to the surface like you have no foil. But I discovered I could torque it up by turning upwind and then sweeping the board downwind while I pulled on the wing. Once you've come off the surface there isn't much drag, so it accelerates immediately to a high enough speed that you can come up smoothly.

I think shimming the 340 to a little less up angle might make for a wicked fast setup.

It also doesn't really overfoil, or at least when it does, it recovers gracefully. I got it up on it's tiptoes a few times but instead of tipping over it just settles a little and keeps going. I'm not going to test that a lot, falling at whatever speed we were reaching (STUPID fast) is not the same as a little oopsie with a 1020. It felt like I could leave some body parts the few times I fell at high speed.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 06:57:11 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

liv2surf

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #290 on: July 13, 2020, 09:22:47 AM »
Try accu.co.uk
You can find 304/A2 in USA but not many 316/A4.
Shipping was a few days to East Coast.
Got M6-25, M8-25 and M8-35 in SS 316/A4 DIN 965.
M8-70 SS 316/A4 ISO 14581.
Stock Axis bolts fit the bit the tightest followed by DIN 965.
ISO 14581 is the sloppiest.
Live2Kite said they would try to find bolt specs.
Need extra torque on or off? Try these Wera Keys. Straight end has a slightly larger bit to hold screw on end.

Yeah, as PonoBill said, the site accu.co.uk that Keys Sup recommended is a great site for fasteners. 

The M8-70 A4/316 Stainless Torx head are a special order (need 25 or more for special order - I requested a quote... but may be prohibitive). The M8-70 SS 316/A4 ISO 14581 (hex) in catalog are an OK substitution. @Keys Sup Thanks again for pointing out this fasteners web site.
9'6" CRUZ Surf foil SUP (152L)
5'4" Slingshot Slingwing v2; 4m Cabrinha Crosswing
Axis 1020; 65cm Project Cedrus carbon mast
6'6" CRUZ 'CIM' Foil SUP (130L)
Chinook Thrust 92 Paddle -- fixed 78" length
Me: 185 lbs, 64 yo Half Moon Bay, CA

all~wet

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #291 on: July 13, 2020, 10:18:57 AM »
Love hearing that report regarding winging on the 1000/390 as that's the biggest I've got in my arsenal. What are the odds of a 200 LBer w/ prone and SUP surf experience learning to wing on a 1000/390??
In 10-15kts w/  and 6' SUP and a 6.0 wing?  I assume the 1020 would be ideal, but don't want to spend $ for a wing I'd never surf, use briefly on a wing then want something faster. Is learning w/ that combo/conditions a reasonable expectation?  Would mean I'm just short wing to get going  :o

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #292 on: July 13, 2020, 11:31:28 AM »
Love hearing that report regarding winging on the 1000/390 as that's the biggest I've got in my arsenal. What are the odds of a 200 LBer w/ prone and SUP surf experience learning to wing on a 1000/390??
In 10-15kts w/  and 6' SUP and a 6.0 wing?  I assume the 1020 would be ideal, but don't want to spend $ for a wing I'd never surf, use briefly on a wing then want something faster. Is learning w/ that combo/conditions a reasonable expectation?  Would mean I'm just short wing to get going  :o

Do I understand that you are already foiling on the 1000/390?  Is that for SUP foil?

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #293 on: July 13, 2020, 01:16:09 PM »
Yup. I think for me it's a two wing quiver. 1020 for super light wind, 1000/390 for everything else, plus maybe a 1150 for SUP downwind in the unlikely event that actually works. But if I lost 20 pounds I'd probably ditch the 1020 as well.

For you maybe just shim the back of the 390 you have to make it a bit easier to pop up. A thin washer will do it. Then switch to 390 with no shim and party like a rockstar.

I'm still stunned at the difference that wing made. It's a bigger change than doing races on a surf SUP and switching to a Bullet 17.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 01:22:20 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

all~wet

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #294 on: July 13, 2020, 11:17:12 PM »


"Do I understand that you are already foiling on the 1000/390?  Is that for SUP foil?"

Hey Admin,
Yeah- that's right.
I've been mostly prone foiling lately- own the 900, 1000, mostly use the 390 stab since I got it last month (I picked up the 860 last week so still adjusting, but after 2 sessions- I'm loving it already) The 1000 is a lot of foil for prone, so I really haven't used the 1000 too much. I mostly got it for small surf on the SUP.  Anyhow- in anticipation of picking up Winging and wanting to get myself reacclimatized to SUP... and because there was micro surf- I SUP foiled today for the first time in a while. Blown out, waist high crap surf using the 1000/390... managed to have lots of fun mostly pumping around and turning on nothing. Foiling is awesome.

Appreciate the feedback Pono-
Great- it definitely sounds it's at the very least worth a go to learn the Wing on the 1000/390 combo and likely to be a really good combo soon. Shimming the stab is a good idea.  Any more direct experience appreciated!

So my mission is clear- get my hands on a 6.0 wing.

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #295 on: July 14, 2020, 12:53:41 AM »
All~wet,

My gut is that you will be fine on that kit (1000/390) - you certainly will be long term.  You already are comfortable foiling, taking off, pumping, etc.  You will pick up the wing side of things pretty quickly.  We have watched a lot of new foilers here now and we are seeing that everyone pays their dues on the foiling part at some point.  There is a lot of new learning there and that takes time.  You are starting with that experience and that will go a long way. 

The 1020 and 920 lift off super smoothly and are very confidence inspiring while you are focusing on the million other things that are going on.  They are also very fun to ride.  If you didn't already own wings (and definitely if you didn't have your foiling experience) those would be a safe choice for starting.

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #296 on: July 14, 2020, 04:47:03 AM »
I picked up the 860 last week so still adjusting, but after 2 sessions- I'm loving it already

That sounds like an amazing wing set.  Would you mind posting an image of your 900 with the 860?

all~wet

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #297 on: July 14, 2020, 09:01:38 AM »
I picked up the 860 last week so still adjusting, but after 2 sessions- I'm loving it already

That sounds like an amazing wing set.  Would you mind posting an image of your 900 with the 860?

Thanks for the feedback!  Yeah- I'll grab some shots of the 860 v 900 this afternoon.

all~wet

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #298 on: July 14, 2020, 06:46:21 PM »
Here is the 900 and 860 comparison.
Hint:
The 860 is wing w/ dihedral, longer cord, shorter wingspan.
The 900 is wing w/ anhedral, shorter cord, longer wingspan







« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 07:11:46 PM by all~wet »

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #299 on: July 15, 2020, 02:45:40 AM »
Vert cool all~wet.  The 860 looks like a great addition.

The 900/390 continues to blow my mind up.  I wanted to get a day where it was very light and check out this combo with my 6.0 meter Swing.  Basically to see what it would do in the lightest conditions that we ride in (conditions where I would have previously used the 1020 or 920).  My old way of thinking had me believing that only a big foil would generate enough lift to get me up in that wind.  Yesterday was perfect for that. 

Summer brings us these periods of hot, beautiful days that almost always build to soft afternoon westerlies.  These are the winds that fill the days until something shows up to cool things down (that cooling after a hot spell almost always brings us a major blast).  A lot of these hot days used to be write off days.  The kiters and later kite foilers would be out in force but windsurfers were largely sidelined.  Winging has us out with or before the first kiters on these days.  Solo sessions in the middle of summer.  Nice. 

Yesterday we went early (too early) and caught the whole ramp up to what would be a super smooth 15 mph afternoon.  I launched into light puff (10, 12?) and foiled right up with very little effort.  This combo likes a bit of flat speed before take off.  I am learning that it doesn't take a long stretch, but it does need those few yards of acceleration.  A shorter slope from an accessible swell is perfect when its windy but when that is not present it takes a little room and a few big wing pumps.  The nice thing is that in these light condition you have flat for days so any suitable puff will get you up.  There is so little drag from this kit that it hits the required speed really quickly.  Sweet. 

The sensations once you are up are amazing.  Slice.  That pretty well sums it up.  The additional speed you get will make you laugh and can carry you through some very dead spots on apparent wind only.  Absolutely amazing.  You are out there spotting minorly darker patches of water to transition. 

This all has me recalibrating.  I am not sure what role there is for the 1000 now at my weight.  The 900/390 covers the lightest wind that I go in.  I would never have expected that. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 02:49:28 AM by Admin »

 


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