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Author Topic: Axis Foils  (Read 129130 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #315 on: July 17, 2020, 04:27:47 PM »
I was on my 1010/440 with the tail shimmed to 3 degrees today in nuking wind. On my 4.2 wing at first because I lent my 3.5 to a neighbor. In the blasting wind my wing was flopping and pulling all over the place--typical mega-overpowered--but the foil was calm and stable. Despite the chaos, I could do whatever I wanted. My neighbor showed up and I got the 3.5 from her and had a blast. The wing was still going nuts and most of the time it was feathered over my head, but even in the insane swells my foil was rock solid.

I'll have my 1000, 900 and 390 next Monday or Tuesday. I can't wait. I plan to do some testing on stabilizer angles to get a better idea of what's going on. We have a fairly extreme set of conditions with wingfoiling, especially for riders who don't use a harness. Kites, wind foilers, and harnessed wing foilers all drop the center of effort a couple of feet. It will be interesting to see what level of stabilization works best for arms-only wing foilers.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #316 on: July 17, 2020, 07:52:10 PM »
Well I took Bill's advice since what he told me made sense.  And wow what a difference.  Rock steady and no noticeable decrease in the ability to get lifted, (in light wind to boot)  Weighting was perfect.  I could have had a conversation, I was so relaxed.  And then I did a jibe on foil.  Wow what a day.   Thanks Bill.  So that was a 1010 front foil with a 400 stab.  This was my second day on the 1010 and it felt like an old friend.  Boy does it go fast.  Starting to get used to speed without thinking I'm going to hit the wall on the bank at Daytona.  Now I'm really excited.

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #317 on: July 18, 2020, 05:14:07 AM »
I was on my 1010/440 with the tail shimmed to 3 degrees today in nuking wind. On my 4.2 wing at first because I lent my 3.5 to a neighbor. In the blasting wind my wing was flopping and pulling all over the place--typical mega-overpowered--but the foil was calm and stable. Despite the chaos, I could do whatever I wanted. My neighbor showed up and I got the 3.5 from her and had a blast. The wing was still going nuts and most of the time it was feathered over my head, but even in the insane swells my foil was rock solid.

I'll have my 1000, 900 and 390 next Monday or Tuesday. I can't wait. I plan to do some testing on stabilizer angles to get a better idea of what's going on. We have a fairly extreme set of conditions with wingfoiling, especially for riders who don't use a harness. Kites, wind foilers, and harnessed wing foilers all drop the center of effort a couple of feet. It will be interesting to see what level of stabilization works best for arms-only wing foilers.

Yesterday was so fun.  Awesome overpowered 4.2 for 45 minutes, just right 3.5 for 45 (did my best LE handle riding ever), another half hour of "I'm not rigging again" meltdown.  I never got bucked by the foil.  I was getting trashed by the wing at the end though.  Those were 2.8 moments for me.  I do want to know if the 390 is actually at zero degrees to the fuselage/board.  I don't feel like I am anywhere near a stability limit.  Could it go lower?

We ordered the 760 and 860 as well.  Those should be coming mid week. 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 05:20:12 AM by Admin »

SUPladomi

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #318 on: July 18, 2020, 05:25:17 AM »
Yesterday was so fun.  Awesome overpowered 4.2 for 45 minutes, just right 3.5 for 45 (did my best LE handle riding ever), another half hour of "I'm not rigging again" meltdown.  I never got bucked by the foil.  I was getting trashed by the wing at the end though.  Those were 2.8 moments for me.  I do want to know if the 390 is actually at zero degrees to the fuselage/board.  I don't feel like I am anywhere near a stability limit.  Could it go lower?
Sounds like it was awesome. I just have to chuckle at the sentence in bold. I'm a 30 year windsurfer and 20 year kiter and finally winged for the first time yesterday and it was my most awesome rigging experience ever. Ha ha!

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #319 on: July 18, 2020, 07:51:00 AM »
I just have to chuckle at the sentence in bold. I'm a 30 year windsurfer and 20 year kiter and finally winged for the first time yesterday and it was my most awesome rigging experience ever. Ha ha!

The rigging for this sport is really a highlight, just a hair more complicated than paddling. I've even taken to just bringing one size wing with me most of the time and so far haven't missed a session (only have a 5.3 and 3.6 though).

Sounds like it did finally pick up in the corridor yesterday, I got impatient... We, (two surfskis an OC-1 and me winging) did Celilo to the Rufus boat ramp yesterday (13 miles downwind). This is a super interesting run as you can go through Hells Canyon to get around Miller island. It looks daunting but it's really straightforward, good wind all the way through every time I've done it, just can't take a break behind the cliffs on the exit like the paddlers do. It's so narrow sometimes it's one continuous wave from one side to the other. I'd say this is actually a better run overall than Blalock to Arlington with continuous surfing on big swell for 10+ of the 13 miles through Maryhill, the wall, etc. it just keeps rolling. My right thigh finally just went out from under me down past Rufus and I had to just lay flat on my board for five minutes just rolling around out there :)

Those guys can pretty well keep up with me on the Axis 1010 / 390 in the smaller stuff and if I go in I'm playing catch up. Once into the bigger waves though even the surfskis are falling far behind. The foil is really the ultimate tool for those big smooth ocean like rollers from well before the Maryhill bridge and on down well past Rufus ;D

« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 08:03:03 AM by Thatspec »

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #320 on: July 18, 2020, 10:13:57 AM »
I recently got an 1010 Axis so I would have it when I got 'good enough'.   I had heard a few accounts how it was alot more difficult.  But after gazing at it, admiring it, I decided to slap the thing on and give it a try.    On the first day, it did have an inclination to climb quickly and needed the front foot forward of my strap.  But the second day, following Bill's tip to shim the 400 stab in the back was, pardon the cliche, a 'gamechanger'.  Front foot could return to strap position and didn't require heavy pressure.  This was the first time I felt the pitch control thru my legs.  I'd been lifted many times before but there was no sensitivity, no feedback.  I liked the 920 but the 1010 is the 'hot babe'  where your sense of touch is on steroids, yet another cliche.  Oh and before the shim of the stab, Alan noticed a ripple wave proceeding my front wing.  After the shim, none.  Cathy turned me on to a shim she got from HR Rod when he was over here.  Haven't tried it yet but washer works dyno.

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #321 on: July 18, 2020, 11:50:23 AM »
The stab shim topic is an interesting one to me, I hope you guys will keep experimenting and report back. Happy as I am with the stock performance of the 1010 / 390 combo, I still feel like my back leg is doing 75% of the work. As I've gotten more used to it I've narrowed up my stance some which has helped.

For serious pumping my back foot foot moves forward several inches, don't know if that's typical. Feels like it will stay on foil down to like 3mph but that's almost always because I've carved across or even back a wave letting one pass because I wasn't going to connect. Then it's back to going downhill. Amazing how it'll go from 3 to prbly 23mph, a lot of energy in this windswell  ;D

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #322 on: July 18, 2020, 09:28:34 PM »
You mean Hell's Gate, a well-named piece of water when it's nuking. I did a SUP downwinder there in the late fall two years ago and wound up freezing to the point of hypothermia (Lycra and a paddle jacket=stupid).
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #323 on: July 23, 2020, 04:00:44 PM »
Three incredible 3.5 sessions today in super gusty, very strong (in the blasts) wind. 

Each session was on a different front wing.  900, 860 and then 760.  96 cm mast and short fuselage, all with the flat-magic 390 tail.

I have been only riding the 900 since I tried it with the 390 ten days ago so I started with that.  Super fun.  Amazing glide through the holes and it stuck with me even as I was getting reshaped by the massive gusts.  On a normal day I would have stayed out but with the new 860 and 760 in the car, no way. 

The 860 is a subtle gullwing shape.  It is a very thin wing that has a small thicker section for 3 or so inches at the fuselage. It has an area of 1212 cm squared projected.  It is less high aspect than the 900 but itis way different than the 820, 920, 1020 in terms of feel.  This is a super lively wing and it is very quick.  I love this one.  I had a great session on it and headed in for the 760.

Yow!  This 760 is a red Stratocaster.  Holy shit!  This one has more gullwing, 30 inch wingspan and 1130 projected.  Super low resistance, very fast, it has a loose trucks skatey feel, and is generally awesome. 

I need more days to figure out which ones I am going to use when, but man, is that an insane threesome.  My gut is that the 760 is the one that I will want to ride.  How often and in what conditions that will work will take more days.  The 860 seems like an incredible middle ground.  I know that I can use the 900 in the lowest winds that I go in. 

« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:40:22 PM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #324 on: July 23, 2020, 04:43:24 PM »
While you were having fun I was getting flogged. I went on my 4.2 at first with the 1135 just as a goofy experiment. I tried it last night in next to no wind, and it was remarkable--I felt how I assume those under 100 pound kids feel when they're on ordinary gear--like i could coast forever. I think this wing might actually enable me to downwind SUP foil. But in overpowered, high wind, gusty conditions I felt like it might kill me, so I came in for my 1000 and the 3.4 Swing.

The 3.5 sucked with all the lulls, so I came back in and got the 4.2, which was fine except in the insane gusts. I have no idea what those gusts were but they ripped the wing out of my hands twice. I'm trying hard to iron out my jibe, and that wasn't helping. I hit the water hard a couple of times and then got really crossed up in mid-jibe when a big gust hit, bounced off the front of my board, whacking my knee, and then faceplanted into the wing. Okay, done. I realized I was probably going to break something other than gear if I kept it up, so I bailed.

High wind is great when it's steady, but that was a mess.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #325 on: July 23, 2020, 05:53:30 PM »


High wind is great when it's steady, but that was a mess.

Agreed, it was a mess at Viento as well, 15-40+. I would have just gone out from Luhr Jensen but looked too gusty to give the Gong Large Pro a try winging (my kitefoil setup). In retrospect it would have been fine in town early, the 40's at Viento made it more survival than testing foils. So far all I can say is "it works".

Admin, can't wait to get a look at the 860 :)

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #326 on: July 23, 2020, 10:01:21 PM »
Admin, can't wait to get a look at the 860 :)

You are welcome to take it out for a spin.  Probably best to try it with a carbon mast so you can match what I am feeling.  Let me know and I will bring an extra mast.  You will want to try the 760 foil also.  It is mind-bending the wings this flat tail opens up.  I changed our backorder from the 900 to a 660 foil.  The speed difference on the 760 foil is freaky.  I think it is going to drop your drawers.  You may just leave 20 in the dust on your fancy pants watch :).  I let it loose on a couple of runs when the wind behaved for a moment and bwahh, hhah, ha!  I wonder what that 660 will feel like.  They look like impossible tiny little toys but, so far it works.  I wonder how they do with larger air wings in lighter wind. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 04:26:58 AM by Admin »

Thatspec

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #327 on: July 24, 2020, 07:46:04 AM »


You are welcome to take it out for a spin. 

Thanks, today looks like it's probably a downwinder type of day where I'm too chicken to experiment. Looks like this weekend there'll be some conditions for experiments. I've been holding back on Axis purchases hoping the Gong setup will cover me for higher wind but from my short session yesterday I may be too spoiled now by the 1010's glide. I do really want to try the 460 tail though (and even the 370). I love the 390 and it's not like I'm missing any waves downwinding for lack of speed but if I could go faster at will and still slow it down (and turn) when needed, why not.

If these numbers are correct on the Google doc, (the aspect ratios of the tails don't appear to be i.e. the 340 shows higher than the 370), the 390 has the highest volume of ANY of the Axis tails. Volume of course not the only factor but I was surprised to see this.

390 = 242.55 cc
370 = 123.28
460 = 81.39





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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #328 on: July 25, 2020, 01:53:07 AM »


You are welcome to take it out for a spin. 

Thanks, today looks like it's probably a downwinder type of day where I'm too chicken to experiment. Looks like this weekend there'll be some conditions for experiments. I've been holding back on Axis purchases hoping the Gong setup will cover me for higher wind but from my short session yesterday I may be too spoiled now by the 1010's glide. I do really want to try the 460 tail though (and even the 370). I love the 390 and it's not like I'm missing any waves downwinding for lack of speed but if I could go faster at will and still slow it down (and turn) when needed, why not.

If these numbers are correct on the Google doc, (the aspect ratios of the tails don't appear to be i.e. the 340 shows higher than the 370), the 390 has the highest volume of ANY of the Axis tails. Volume of course not the only factor but I was surprised to see this.

390 = 242.55 cc
370 = 123.28
460 = 81.39

I do think that that is an error.  All of the stabilizers above the 390 (400, 440, 500) are 90 chord and otherwise larger as well.  It drops to 80 chord at the 390.  They otherwise look proportional so there would be an incremental drop from the 390 to the 370 and then to the 340.  Those two are smaller but because they also have downward angle (incidence) in relation to the fuselage I think they drag more than the 390 which I believe has 0 incidence. 

That 460 tail is wafer thin and looks like it may also be 0 incidence.  It is very cool and I had a lot of fun with that and the 1010 in light Baja winds and mellow waters.  That whole series looks to be designed on glider wings.  Super efficient.  The downside that I felt is that back here  in the Gorge they pickup up every nuance and they threw me around a lot.  I know that you and Bill love them.  I may just have been under the weight threshold. 

The 900 is very quick and much more settled for me.  It carves a turn a lot easier and at my weight it stays gliding incredibly well.  In fact on a swell I still need to be careful to keep it down. 

The 860 is more settled again.  It is quick enough but likely a bit shy of the 900.  It turns super easily and predictably, though.  This is a very neutral, natural and comfortable feeling wing to me.  I had a crazy overpowered 6.0 session yesterday (don't ask) followed by a nicely powered 4.2 session (25ish) on the 860.  It was basically like, "I don't care".  This could easily be a one wing quiver.

The 760 is fire.  It is the fastest wing I have ever used and I feel like it will open doors in terms of maneuverability.  I have no idea about range yet but I plan on checking that today.

The 660 is on its way.  Not sure if that one will be too small for me but based on my experience with the 760, I know that at the very least Chan will love it.  She is using the 22 inch wide Fanatic now (the 4'8, 55 Liter) and I think these lower wingspan wings are better for that.  I notice that on the 760 my stance moved more to the centerline (I had to open my straps).  I think that super offset stances are a reaction to very wide foils.  The narrow wingspans seem to allow more natural surf stances.  I am liking that a lot and I think it will be useful as we continue to move to smaller boards.

Its crazy, but a month ago I thought that a Wing foil looked like larger SUP foils.  Now I am thinking they look like the smallest surf foils or mid size kite foils.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 04:16:49 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Axis Foils
« Reply #329 on: July 25, 2020, 10:39:33 PM »
At the other end of the spectrum, the 1150 wing was super amazing today. I'd say the wind was 7 to 10mph max, and even with a 6M wing I struggled to get up, but once I was up I could cruise through endless lulls with no worry about coming down. The last reach I did before the wind died completely I pumped all the way across the river with my wing mostly just barely being held up by the wind. We all know my pumping sucks dead toads, but even i can pump this wing.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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