Author Topic: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?  (Read 5090 times)

MikeLima

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
    • Email
Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« on: March 07, 2022, 03:48:10 AM »
I woke up wondering if a thing exists and a short search came up with nothing. Either a handheld vhf or other device that transmits an AIS signal WITHOUT sounding a distress call. So that you, out in the ocean, maybe in the fog, likely obscured by waves, show up on the screens of nearby boats. Such a thing would be handy for a lot of situations, including allowing the mothership to keep track of everyone on a downwinder. Maybe radar reflectors tucked behind the LE tooÖ
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

all~wet

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2022, 08:27:47 AM »
Yes, you could get a handheld VHS radio w/ AIS, DSC, GPS, register it and track position with other VHS with same capabilities or monitor with available programs for phones. AIS (Automatic Identification System) is non emergency vessel location/ID signal which tells you vessels name, type, length, course, speed, location required for all commercials vessels. A simpler solution is an iPhone or iWatch using find my phone/find my watch if you are in area that will have cell coverage. Another cheap, easy solution is- there are heaps of cheap GPS trackers out there, many are even waterproof.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 08:32:07 AM by all~wet »

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25225
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2022, 09:55:42 AM »
In a completely different direction, there's meshtastic and a few modules or systems that can use it. I'm playing around with it for use with my towbot, but it has a lot going for it with keeping track of people doing something adventurous together. Meshtastic software is free: Open systems stuff. And the modules that support it are cheap. Not only can you connect to everyone in your group and send text messages to anyone you choose to, but you automatically know exactly where they are, where you are, and what direction you need to go in to find them. If you're not looking for something totally turnkey and you have some DIY skills you can build a system to use this software for about 30 bucks. There is a surprisingly large community messing with this stuff. It uses LoRa for the radio which is more or less line of sight, but line of sight on water is a long way, and the system meshes, meaning your signal can hop from one system to another until it reaches the target person. I brought a couple of the Lillygo boards here to Maui, and when I powered one up I connected to five or six repeaters just from my driveway. Surprised the heck out of me. You can buy the boards with Meshtastic already installed, which means you don't even need to know how to upload firmware. You put a rechargeable 18650 battery in the battery holder and turn it on. All you really need to do is put it in a case, and there are all kinds of 3D print or premade cases available.

I wrote a little bit about it here: https://www.ponostyle.com/towbots-and-silliness/
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUS4Life

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2022, 10:25:49 AM »
PonoBill, I was looking at LORA communication system too. I think its a great idea for DW were you can track and communicate with other people in your group plus there is no service fee.  I'm not a techie but seems like it not too hard to set it up, just need to figure a way to waterproof it.

MikeLima

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2022, 10:38:47 AM »
Iíve seen vhf handhelds that receive ais and display other boats, but not that transmit without distress.

That idea sound interesting pono, but one of my goals is to become visible to other boats too. And does it work without cellular coverage. It is true that for a group dw Apple Watches and find my friends can be handy. But other boats wouldnít be aware without visual. In Maine that could be an issue someday.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

ninja tuna

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 618
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2022, 04:50:52 PM »
The spot tracking system will kinda work for what you are thinking but not all of what you are thinking.  Just an idea, but will require a subscription I think.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4777
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2022, 08:48:55 PM »
Let me ask a clarifying question that I think I already know the answer to lol.

Am I getting that you are not worried about communication as much as you are trying to show up on other boats screens so they don't hit you.

Not calling, not worried about where you are. Just trying to make your tiny board visible, yes?

For my part I'd say anyone moving fast enough to hit you probably isn't looking at their screen either. What's the use case if you don't mind me asking?

tarquin

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2022, 10:25:50 PM »
You need to register and get an MMSI number to have AIS. Not that difficult, not sure about America.
 I don't really think boats especially commercial shipping want to see 10 AIS targets screaming around on their screen. Collision alarms would be sounding etc. There are 2 types of AIS,commercial and pleasure. Commercial ships can and normally do turn off pleasure craft in busy areas. Again constant alarms. So don't pressume because you have AIS a commercial ship can see you.
 There are plenty of apps and other devices that would work to keep in touch and track a group as others have said.
 MOB AIS devices only send about 8 times a minute to save battery. I asked someone about reprogramming one to send a normal message, not distress signal. As you do when you program your VHF with an MMSI number. He said its possible.
 If you consider yourself a vessel and are out in foggy conditions you should have a hand held fog horn and make appropriate sound signal.
 

MikeLima

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2022, 02:45:02 PM »
I get the point about sounding alarms on otherís boats given all the frequent course changes, I hadnít thought of that. As a boat owner with an MFD that displays ais targets I can attest that would be annoying. I also emailed a boating supplier, and they said it doesnít exist. Reprogramming an MOB beacon sounds interesting but beyond the effort Iím willing to put in. It probably wouldnít transmit course and speed so wouldnít trip close approach alarms.

One of the inspirations for the idea was thinking about a transatlantic trip next year, and wondering if there was any ďsafeĒ way to get some downwinding in en route. Iíve seen videos of people activating those ais beacons while out of range of any boats in the middle of the ocean. Something like this would be needed as there is no cell service for find my friends thatís for sure.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25225
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2022, 03:32:43 PM »
Actually, if I understand your post correctly that's almost a perfect application for meshtastic.

Picture this. You're on a sailboat, doing a crossing, and you get the goofy idea that a downwinder would be fun. You have a little LoRa antenna on the masthead, and one on your belt. They know where you are at all times since your GPS' stays synched, points to each other, and shows both sets of coordinates. You fall and pop your wing. So you send a text to the boat. All they have to do is steer to your coordinates. Or just follow the arrow.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4777
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2022, 05:51:25 PM »
Pono, as usual, great solution. Mike Lima, have 2 if you make them DIY.

Downwinding while crossing the Atlantic? My only question is "what size wing does it take to get you on foil with those huge balls?" 😆

tarquin

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2022, 10:35:38 PM »
AIS only works in VHF range so just take a hand held VHF. Now that you say what you are thinking about doing I would definately take a personal AIS, hand held flare and hand held VHF and a GPS EPIRB. There is a good chance you will not be in VHF range of other vessels, or your mother ship!
 What is the boat you are doing it on and how many crew. I think getting back onboard in conditions you want to go downwinding may be tricky. Something you want to try a few times before you just jump off mid Atlantic.
 In any swell VHF range is not far when you are at water level.
 Do some calculations of what speed you think you will be doing and what speed the mothership will do. In big swell even with a wing you will only be visible occasionally even at 2-3 Nm. After that it will be really difficult to see you.
 As Pono has said some other sort of comms might be a good idea but would you trust your life on it is what you have to ask yourself!
 When planning for anything like this always think whats the worst thing that could happen.
 You head off, wow this is awsome. Get out of visual range very quickly. Squall comes through or you get wiped out by a big roller and loose wing. You are now at water level getting  rolled by big waves, using a hand held VHF is very difficult and has a very limited range,same as your personal AIS. What do you do now?
 Always prepare for the worst and have practiced how to use safety equipment.
 Not saying its a bad idea, just make sure you are properly prepared and understand the risks.

MikeLima

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Non-emergency personal AIS transponder?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2022, 03:28:51 AM »
To be sure, this is 99% an intellectual exercise. But, if I WERE downwinding in the middle of the ocean Iíd sure as sh!t stay damn close. And if a squall came through or something else happens, then out comes the ais mob beacon, or use meshtastic. Boarding is indeed a question Iíve been pondering.

The original question still puzzles me however, as Iíve seen kayakers out in waves and they were hard to see, and go in a straight line. Seems like a thing that should exist.
77kg rider
Armstrong 39L wing/surf
Armstrong 88 wing/SUP

Kujira foils
NoLimitz masts

Duotone unit 2022 3/4/5;dlab6

 


* Recent Posts

post Re: Ginxu step hokum
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Admin
Today at 07:09:06 AM
post Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Dwight (DW)
Today at 04:38:46 AM
post Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Vancouver_foiler
May 27, 2022, 10:47:51 PM
post Re: Best light wind wing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
juandesooka
May 27, 2022, 02:03:05 PM
post Ginxu step hokum
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
kwhilden
May 27, 2022, 01:59:47 PM
post Re: Best light wind wing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
supmmmm
May 27, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
post Re: Best light wind wing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
PonoBill
May 27, 2022, 01:00:37 PM
post Re: Best light wind wing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
burchas
May 27, 2022, 10:28:49 AM
post Re: Best light wind wing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
MikeLima
May 27, 2022, 09:33:26 AM
post Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
Dwight (DW)
May 26, 2022, 02:18:49 PM
post Re: Cover songs.
[Random]
Night Wing
May 26, 2022, 02:17:34 PM
post Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
juandesooka
May 26, 2022, 01:02:50 PM
post Re: new GONG HA stabs with integrated carbon fuselage
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
surfcowboy
May 26, 2022, 12:58:52 PM
post Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
jondrums
May 26, 2022, 10:08:24 AM
post Re: Best light wind wing
[Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP]
WingFoiling!
May 26, 2022, 10:05:12 AM
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal