Author Topic: Waterstarts  (Read 48516 times)

Thatspec

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2020, 09:09:35 AM »
Cool, he really made that look easy. Still I don't see any advantage to a "mid" sized board like 60 liters vs a fully floating "island" of 95 liters. There's just not enough swing weight difference. The difference between 95 and 30 though, now your feel'in it :)

Board specs brand X:
4'11" 65 liters 4.8kg
5'0"   95 liters 6.0kg

4'5"  29 liter surf foil board 2.8kg

Have also heard one reputable rider say that longer and heavier is helpful for downwinding.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:11:12 AM by Thatspec »

Admin

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2020, 09:19:22 AM »
I am with you Thatspec.  The kneestart (or squat start) on a partially submerged semi-sinker seems like the hardest of all starts and maybe with less reward.  Full sinkers can easily be ~ 4 feet @ 6 lbs.  Now that sounds awesome!


VB_Foil

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2020, 01:22:16 PM »
I would counter the opinion regarding not much of a tradeoff of 95L vs 60L.  I've now had three sessions on my 74L 5'1 board after learning on my 5'11" 105L board.  The last three sessions have been great side-onshore wind 20-30 mph, 12-20MPH, and 20-30MPH again.  Very choppy conditions with small river swell running.

With the solid wind and appropriate foil and wing size selection, the kneestart is barely noticeable.  I climb on my board, belly down, then pop onto my knees while grabbing the wing handles and the wing pulls me right to my feet, two seconds later I'm off. 

I've noticed a huge difference in the ability to pump and my swell / down wind / de-powered riding has improved a huge amount in the last three sessions.  So much so that this last sessions, I rode a bump so far downwind that I couldn't make it back upwind as the wind died, so I had to prone paddle along the docks/shoreline to get back. 

Maneuverability of the 74L board with my 50cm fuselage makes the board feel like my prone board.  I may even try it out prone in the ocean to see if I can get in early. The smaller board also doesn't catch the wind like the 105L board. 

I still can't get over the feeling of towing into a knee high 'swell' line and just trimming along styling out, completely de-powering and forgetting about the wing (and the board).

I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   4’10” 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   5’11” 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 1050, 1200, 1550, 2400
Wings: F-One Swing 3.5M and 5M

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2020, 01:49:58 PM »
I would counter the opinion regarding not much of a tradeoff of 95L vs 60L.  I've now had three sessions on my 74L 5'1 board after learning on my 5'11" 105L board.  The last three sessions have been great side-onshore wind 20-30 mph, 12-20MPH, and 20-30MPH again.  Very choppy conditions with small river swell running.

With the solid wind and appropriate foil and wing size selection, the kneestart is barely noticeable.  I climb on my board, belly down, then pop onto my knees while grabbing the wing handles and the wing pulls me right to my feet, two seconds later I'm off. 

I've noticed a huge difference in the ability to pump and my swell / down wind / de-powered riding has improved a huge amount in the last three sessions.  So much so that this last sessions, I rode a bump so far downwind that I couldn't make it back upwind as the wind died, so I had to prone paddle along the docks/shoreline to get back. 

Maneuverability of the 74L board with my 50cm fuselage makes the board feel like my prone board.  I may even try it out prone in the ocean to see if I can get in early. The smaller board also doesn't catch the wind like the 105L board. 

I still can't get over the feeling of towing into a knee high 'swell' line and just trimming along styling out, completely de-powering and forgetting about the wing (and the board).

YES...and all the young guys leap to their feet, unlike this old Shrek like creature in this video.

Thatspec

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2020, 06:08:59 PM »
Admittedly I'm speculating ;) and one of my stats is off above. The 5' 95 liter board is in fact 5'6 95 liters so a bit more out in front. Hoping to sell my 140 liter board and get into something in the 95 liter range as my "Island". For a smaller board, I don't think I can sink 60L like the guy in the video and already have the 29L so will certainly play around with it when the water warms up a bit (nothing to do but dream right now).

Admin, it took half a dozen sessions kiting it to get used to how quickly the little board responds, the big board has its place though.
Great tip Dwight, using the wing as an outrigger!

Admin

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2020, 01:48:37 AM »
All good points.  I am actually thinking more about the difference between the new breed of plugs ~ 5 footers that are (coming) available in higher volumes (95 L in my case).  The hope is that those will be pretty stable, relatively light and lower swing weight without that much struggle to knee start in ugly water.  We ordered the 75 and 55 as well but those are clearly for Chan :).

winged surfer

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2020, 02:01:18 AM »
Admin,
Did you order the Sky Wing 4’8 and 5’0?
Do you think is there between them so much difference to get both?

Admin

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2020, 02:24:10 AM »
They had a special running.  Buy 3, get a free sticker pack.  I love stickers.

There is a 20 liter and 2" width drop between sizes.  I think that is pretty substantial.  I have to do a less than ideal knee start so I have limited hope for the 5'0.  Maybe in super smooth water.  That one should be be pretty floaty for Chan.  The 4'8 seems like it might work for her as well.   

SKY Wing 4'8'' 55L 22" / 56 cm 4'8" / 142 cm
SKY Wing 5'0'' 75L 24" / 61 cm 5'0" / 152 cm
SKY Wing 5'4'' 95L 26" / 66 cm 5'4" / 163 cm


Dwight (DW)

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2020, 02:57:17 AM »
You’ll be able to steal Chan’s 5’0 after a few months. My knee starts are STILL getting faster and easier. Something so simple, yet my skills continue to evolve. At this rate, I may feel like the youngsters by summer.

VB_Foil

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2020, 04:18:12 AM »
For me the knee start puts more stress on my hips. I’ve been rehabbing suspected FAI for some time now and that definitely helps. Doing yoga poses and the like can really help for when you are on the water. Anyone else have FAI diagnosis, DM me for some tips.

I’m a 5’9” 65kg rider:

Boards:
   4'5.5" 33L Armstrong
   4’10” 37L FSM
   5'1" 74L FSM
   5’11” 100L FSM

Foils: Armstrong 1050, 1200, 1550, 2400
Wings: F-One Swing 3.5M and 5M

surlygringo

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2020, 10:37:05 AM »
 Admin, I will be interested to see how you get on with the various Sky Wing boards. I still think there may be some utility in what you guys are calling a “mid” size board. It seems like if you have the balance to keep a board under control when it is only a foot or two under water it might be easier to bring to the surface than a tiny board that’s four feet down, especially in lighter wind. I would also guess that narrower, but still with a little length they would be the easiest boards to prone paddle in on if you live in a place where the wind often shuts off to nothing.
This is a frame grab of Patrice, the Gong shaper, doing my favorite start with a wing: the step off the pier.

PonoBill

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2020, 01:10:59 PM »
For knee starts, anything you can kneel on long enough to get the wing up is gold. Of course, conditions effect that a lot, but once even a clumsy, heavy fahkah like me gets to the point where the wing is flying and I have my front foot up, I'm gold. I've knee started on boards I couldn't stand on for two seconds.

I think though, if I were going to try waterstarts (no way) I'd want a serious sinker. I tried paddling a sinker SUP once, and discovered I could get a smaller sinking board (one that sank almost to my hips) going sometimes, whereas one that sank below my knees was just impossible. Undoubtedly there were other factors going on, since these experiments were spaced weeks apart (time required to lick my wounds), but the deeply sunk board didn't seem to pitch forward or back as much--my falls on that were from rolling to the side.

Incidentally, falling off a board that has tipped you off by pitching forward is a lot more dangerous than one that rolls you to the side--The buggah came up like a Polaris a few times and just missed my gourd.

I'm going to be looking at boards in the 100L range to knee start. Short, wide, thick in the nose and tail. Sounds like the first line of the chorus to a country western song. Probably followed by "but I loved her anyway".
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 01:14:01 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

biggins

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2020, 06:35:21 PM »
Admin, VERY interested to hear how it goes with those boards...especially if you’re able to ride the 4’8. At 55L and you being 70ish that’s exactly 15L under which is what’s recommended for advanced riders.

I’m curious if you’ll be able to knee start or do the “poo stance” start.  ;D

Thanks for being the guinea pig for everyone and buying all three. Would love to hear about the weights of the boards when you have time too.

Awesome thanks!

D

Admin

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Re: Waterstarts
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2020, 04:05:35 AM »
I am stoked to try them all!  I have an unusual thing where I have to get my front knee up before I can grab the wing so that requires a little more stability from the board.  It is really nice and stable to be on your knees and very stable (even on a small board) when the wing is flying.  The flying wing offers so much support.  Getting that front knee up without that support is a less stable proposition.  It is fine in mellow conditions but it gets harder when it is stirred up.  I am still hopeful that I can work something out.  There is usually a way.  It think it should be fine on the 95 and I will work on the others. 

I am 76 kg so the 55 would be a little more of a sinker.  That might be a good thing though.  We will see :)