Author Topic: Alt Meat  (Read 35679 times)

Night Wing

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2019, 01:32:23 PM »
Red meat is not good for humans.

At least I got rid of the italic fonts. Now to finish before the italic fonts might make their appearance again.

I love red meat. I really like the taste of cooked rare red meat. I do not care if red meat is bad for humans. I like it! At my age of 69 right now, I'm basically in the Winter of my Life.

Since I'm 69; I would prefer to die with a knife and fork in my hands eating red meat. For me; it would be poetic justice if I died right after a hearty meal of cooked rare prime rib, mashed garlic potatoes with the potatoes topped with Daisy Sour Cream, chives and bacon bits; sliced green beans and King Hawaiian Slider Rolls with the rolls slathered in real butter.

The rare prime rib smothered in heavy brown gravy and along with the meal, a Shock Top Belgian White wheat beer from a bottle, not from an aluminum can. For dessert, some Blue Bell Dutch Chocolate ice cream.

And I can't think of a..............BETTER..............."last meal".  8)



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Badger

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2019, 01:42:40 PM »
I had all my "last meals" when I was young. Now I'm all about being healthy in my old age.

There are people who have tried to make vegetarians out of cats and dogs always with dire consequences. All kinds of severely bad things happen to predators when you remove meat from their diet. It's actually a very cruel thing to do.

An alternative meat for cats and dogs would have to be 100% equal to meat, not in taste but in its molecular make up. That technology is still a long way off but I believe someday they will be able to replicate meat in a laboratory.

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« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 01:49:29 PM by Badger »
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PonoBill

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2019, 08:45:24 PM »
I'm right there with you wing. I started this thread by being surprised at how good a Burger King sample tasted. I fucking hate fast food burgers. Tonight I barbequed some ribeye steaks, with some sauteed mushrooms, bruschetta made with heirloom tomatoes from my garden. A salad with heirloom tomatoes peaches, and parmesan with olive oil and fig balsamic vinegar. I grew the tomatoes and the peaches. I have my own method of barbequing steak that leaves a pink (not red) middle swimming in juices and tender as... well anything. I'd rather eat Elk than beef, rather eat Venison backstrap than elk. I make my own duck leg confit with ducks I shoot--or at least I did.

But yeah, we're headed towards the end of all that. Humans are not good stewards. The stuff we love is going to die, because we're dicks. You know it, I know it.
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surfcowboy

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2019, 08:59:52 PM »
My ancestors probably liked slavery. It worked out for them and they even got their religion twisted up to justify it. Didn’t want to give it up. Extreme example, but we don’t always get to do what we want and we will find a million ways to justify what we want to believe.

I eat meat, my family raised cattle, but when I eat less meat my cholesterol goes down. And I can’t fool myself or google til I find a way to justify it. Ask your doctor. Hell, ask any doctor.

It’s not sustainable to have cheap meat long term. Have a steak? Sure, but they need to cost $25 a pound and not be so common.

My wife likes ‘68 camaros. They don’t make those anymore. But you can still get one, we just don’t commute in them anymore.

As to pets, we have too many of those too but they can eat plant based food too. Most kibble is corn now anyway.

Y’all should try a computer from ‘94. They sucked. They got better. So will this. But if I did shit the way my grandpa did I’d be in jail and we’d all end up dead.

Hell, while I wrote this wing surfers just got twice as good and your new foil is obsolete. lol 😂

PonoBill

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2019, 09:34:46 PM »
Funny. I tore down two laptops today that were sitting in a drawer, both were high end. I ripped all the guts out and tossed them in the recycling. All I wanted was the fresnel lenses and the edge illumination plastic from the screen so I can make some light from them for Fritz, the '78 GMC Moho. Over the last three days I ripped apart two Apple cinema displays and television to get the same bits. I'm making lights that look like daylight through a skylight on a day with high clouds. Probably 15K worth of obsolete shit. But the lights are nice.

Yeah, things need to change. Somehow we need to convince people to take care of the planet like they take care of their kids--or maybe a lot better.

I read a lot of history. We are a lot kinder than our ancestors, but we have a long way to go. The horrific things we see Muslim extremists do the average Christian thought was just fine and fun to watch only a few hundred years ago. I actually doubt that we will survive as a species. I think we're a bit too fucked up. Maybe the cockroaches get to push the reset button.
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eastbound

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2019, 03:42:38 AM »
"Studies have shown that long term daily eating of wheat products can have very negative affects on your brain and body over time that show up in old age."

??---better link some of these "studies" or ima hafta call BS


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Badger

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2019, 05:05:42 AM »
"Studies have shown that long term daily eating of wheat products can have very negative affects on your brain and body over time that show up in old age."

??---better link some of these "studies" or ima hafta call BS

Not much time. Heading off to work, but I did find this PDF.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ba07/b6e9f3cb6e77239d0e81de9aee8173595403.pdf

This is an except from the conclusion.

"Cereal grains obviously can be included in moderate amounts in the diets
of most people without any noticeable, deleterious health effects, and herein
lies their strength. When combined with a variety of both animal- and plantbased foods, they provide a cheap and plentiful caloric source, capable of sustaining and promoting human life. The ecologic, energetic efficiency
wrought by the widespread cultivation and domestication of cereal grains
allowed for the dramatic expansion of worldwide human populations, which
in turn, ultimately led to humanity’s enormous cultural and technological
accomplishments. The downside of cereal grain consumption is their ability
to disrupt health and well being in virtually all people when consumed in
excessive quantity. This information has only been empirically known since
the discovery of vitamins, minerals and certain antinutrients in the early part
of this century"


So, the controversy is how much wheat and grains should be considered excessive. I'm not completely eliminating it from my life, just cutting back on a lot of it and not eating too much at one time. There is a lot more information out there with varying opinions. I think science is beginning to the understand that the amount of wheat that the average American eats may not be healthful. Some doctors believe that a lifetime of daily intake could contribute to many of the physical and neurological problems people face in old age.

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eastbound

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2019, 06:17:46 AM »
i dont understand the connection between this paper (it's not remotely a "study"--what you posit cant be studied) and your statement:

"Studies have shown that long term daily eating of wheat products can have very negative affects on your brain and body over time that show up in old age."

From the conclusion:

"Cereal grains obviously can be included in moderate amounts in the diets
of most people without any noticeable, deleterious health effects, and herein
lies their strength. When combined with a variety of both animal- and plantbased foods, they provide a cheap and plentiful caloric source, capable of
sustaining and promoting human life."

there is no mention in the paper of scientific evidence of brain/body deterioration in people who consume grains over a lifetime

i cant find anything credible (google) that theorizes that long term regular consumption of whole grains causes brain/body deterioration

now there's a ton on celiac's and gluten sensitivity--but that's about gluten--and celiac's, at least, seems real--but celiac's is a specific disease that affects less than 1% of us population, nearly all of whom are unaware/undiagnosed--so not really germane to this discussion

my anecdote: ive eaten plenty of whole grains and cereals my entire life---they seem only to benefit efficacy of my digestion--while they fill me up and contribute to whatever energy/satisfaction i am deriving from what i eat--only neg for me is that all breads, including the highest quality whole grain, contain much sodium--at least 150mgs per slice---low sodium bread is like mush--without the salt something goes wrong with the yeast etc

when not in bread, whole grains and cereals have zero sodium--nuther big plus, at least for people like me, who buy that sodium is a contributor to high BP
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lucabrasi

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2019, 06:34:20 AM »
………………….
Kraft Miracle Whip, dill pickles, lettuce, ketchup, mustard, bacon bits and a squaew slice of swiss cheese. ………………..
Miracle Whip?
Oh no....I was all in with you and then...…..Miracle Whip..... ;)

After all these years of domestication I wonder, generally speaking, why dogs don't hunt anymore but with cats it's just still what they do. Something to do with packs maybe? I don't know...…

Fake Fried chicken? That might be worse than a fake burger...

So, the controversy is how much wheat and grains should be considered excessive. I'm not completely eliminating it from my life, just cutting back on a lot of it and not eating too much at one time. There is a lot more information out there with varying opinions. I think science is beginning to the understand that the amount of wheat that the average American eats may not be healthful. Some doctors believe that a lifetime of daily intake could contribute to many of the physical and neurological problems people face in old age.

I am starting to be convinced there is something up with the gluten/wheat deal...…….to a point.
Too many people around me who have cut it out of their diets and feel better/do better.
Heard something somewhere that a surgery can trigger the "sensitivity" to it in some people and seen what appeared to be that timing in at least one person I know.
Also means no more beer.
no, hard cider or seltzer are not the same...…..

I think everyone knows the food we eat now vs. what we ate 100-150 years ago is vastly different and if you eat crap every day it will make you feel like crap and catch up with you as the years go on.
Defining crap and how much crap and what kind of crap is too much is where we are right now I think. Too much of this might be crap for all but just a bit of this crap might be ok for some but not all.

How about dairy? Isn't that something to be considered as something that has changed massively? Yes, lactose intolerant and all that and no good for some, don't have too much, etc but...…..
Pasteurization? Anything to consider there? Does what it do to make our stuff safe take out and take away what is needed to make the stuff what we need?

Bean

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2019, 06:50:09 AM »
...celiac's is a specific disease that affects less than 1% of us population, nearly all of whom are unaware/undiagnosed--

You have to wonder how they capped the disease under 1 percent while at the same time state that nearly all are unaware or are undiagnosed.

One thing is for certain, as with many diseases there are varying degrees.  In this case, from those who test positive for celiac but show no symptoms, to the fully blown disease.

The key is optimizing the foodsources that work best for your specific body and ruling out the ones that don't.  There is no one size fits all. 



eastbound

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2019, 06:56:27 AM »
luca---i grew up drinking whole milk out of the carton in the fridge all day--it's what i drank when thirsty--cheese all day, again right outta the fridge

drank prolly 3-4 cups whole milk per day til i quit dairy a couple years ago--wakeup for me was a chest scan which showed my calcium score only slightly better than avg for my age, despite continually stellar cholesterol and other blood work---so i got rid of fatty dairy, but also meat---i am lighter and more fit, but ive been bike-commuting 50 mins ea way too--who knows why we feel good or bad?---so many variables, including that im a psychotic freak, which can make me feel bad, even when ive eaten the "best" foods

ima get another scan in a year or two (lotta radiation)--hope the calcium score goes from avg to stud

gluten sensitivity??  jury's still out for me--unarguable is that gluten-free indu$try is big bux, so there are many with a stake in keeping the concern growing, hysteria or not
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eastbound

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2019, 07:06:46 AM »
prevalence of celiacs is a very  "studyable" concept---

easy sampling, and there's no time factor--gimme 100 thousand randoms, adjusted for whatever variables (age, other diseases, etc), test em all for celiacs, interview to ascertain who was aware and/or previously diagnosed

there's a very reliable genetic test for celiac's--it's kinda binary--you have it or not

no such test for gluten sensitivity--at least that ive heard of

cults prey on people who "feel bad"---we all kinda feel bad at times--or at least yearn to feel better--watch your wallet!

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Bean

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2019, 08:48:16 AM »
cults prey on people who "feel bad"---we all kinda feel bad at times--or at least yearn to feel better--watch your wallet!

Yes, ulitmately...the opiod crisis and benzos - "mothers little helper".

PonoBill

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2019, 09:45:12 AM »
Most human studies except those that have a black-and-white test are suspect. Too many variable, including the simple fact that the subjects lie. You can do a hell of a lot with statistics, but the presence of so many conflicting studies reveals a lot about how much you apply to your life. And anytime someone says "doctors say" my bullshit meter pegs. The only things that peg it worse are "scientists say" and "nine out of ten lawyers agree".

I have a nagging suspicion that grains in general aren't good for anyone. Mostly because we haven't been able to eat them long enough to accommodate them through evolutionary processes. It looks like humans might have eaten some grains about 20K years ago and started domesticating wheat about 10K years ago. That's pretty much the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms for anything that isn't viciously selective. Long term evolutionary change takes about a million years in most species. Of course some stuff takes a single generation, or perhaps just a few, but that's narrow and localized. For all humans to safely metabolize mechanically ground grain that would otherwise whip through the digestive system with no change would seem to be more like a million years. We'll have a better idea about 1002019. Check back then.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 09:47:11 AM by PonoBill »
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eastbound

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Re: Alt Meat
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2019, 10:18:33 AM »
your point re grains/evolution is exactly that discussed in the piece badger linked---and seems potentially legit

but im blinded by my anti-corporate bias that the problem isnt the grains, it's the processing--by evil corps like cargill

certainly white flour is shit--now is the unprocessed grain??--maybe ill have my head frozen so i can see how things go......
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