Author Topic: Compression footprints on my touring board. Wondering if this is a problem.  (Read 2899 times)

robon

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I have a fairly new board (two months) that has a wood top sheet, and I have noticed concave impressions where I stand have formed. At first I thought it was just the deck pad compressing, but over time the compression has definitely deepened where I stand and I can see the concave foot prints now. Hard to take a picture because the deck pad is black and I would have to angle the board, but the compression is there for sure.

I realize this is more common with surfboards as the foam compresses and the top sheet sinks a bit, but this has never happened with a touring board that I have owned. I have put a lot of hours with years of ownership on the same models of previous boards, and this has never happened, so I'm wondering if some compression is somewhat normal with a wooden board, or should I be worried. Peeling back the deck pad is an ugly job, but I suppose it may be necessary here to check things out.

The board is a Sunova, and any feedback from anyone who this has happened to would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 09:52:43 PM by robon »

Luc Benac

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Oh no.....
Mel did you try to speak with Paul? He is the distributor for Sunova here.
Also ask Norm he has paddled that board more than anybody else.
Naish Javelin LE 14' x 26" 250L
Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Sunova Allwater 14'x27" 319L
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
 *Andaman 500, Salish 460 & 500, Mana 82

robon

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Hey,

I should have made a call last week I guess, but just kept paddling... and the concaves have gotten a bit deeper.

I sent a message to the local shop I bought the board from and will likely talk to Paul soon. I have talked to him before but just wanted to ask on here as this is the first wood board I have owned. I just sold my Evo too, so the timing on this is not good if the board needs a fix. Not a good month. My click in Spartan fin fell out tonight, but at least I was only about 500 feet from shore, but I will never see it again. The fin box is much larger on my Expedition than the Evo, so I have a fair bit of play with fins now, and the Evo fin box was very snug to the point of having to sand down previous fins to get them in and out without destroying the fin. I'm about to go on a rant lol, but I won't. I also lost a paddle on a river trip a few weeks ago. On a roll..

Luc Benac

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Ok now it is a matter for a country song. Hope thinks get fixed. I quickly asked his opinion to Norm. Will let you if i hear back. I would never go out with a fin that kis not very snug in the box....
Naish Javelin LE 14' x 26" 250L
Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Sunova Allwater 14'x27" 319L
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
 *Andaman 500, Salish 460 & 500, Mana 82

robon

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I had the fin shimmed but I think the shim may have slid a bit so the ball bearing that clicks in may have been blocked. I wasn't planning on getting a click in fin, and will never get another one. I remember being several kilometres from shore on Kal Lake and a paddler next to me had his fin fall out and he hit the drink. Good thing it was calm out, but he was struggling.

Luc Benac

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 When needed i put a layer of epoxy that i sand to fit. I prefer that to shims.
Naish Javelin LE 14' x 26" 250L
Naish Maliko 14' x 26" 264L
Sunova Allwater 14'x27" 319L
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L
 *Andaman 500, Salish 460 & 500, Mana 82

supthecreek

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Hi ronbon

I am sorry to hear about your experience.
My initial reply is only preliminary and just relaying my personal experience, to try to put you mind at ease while I wait for your pics.

and yeah, about the center fin box:
I have to be very selective on the fins I use.
Some fins just don't want to fit properly.

I just messaged Tino at Sunova, and asked about the compression.
But I really need to have a few good angle pictures of the area to get a feel for the sort of compression you are experiencing.

I have had most of my 20 Sunova's for 4 years, and only seen the very slightest footwells on a few boards, over time.

Unfortunately, I had cataract surgery yesterday, so I can't move any of my boards around to have a close look at standing areas.
At 235 lbs, I have paddled my 14' Search for hundreds and hundreds of hours in the past 3 years.
There may be very slight footwell, but I can't really without pulling the board out of my van for a close look.... nothing noticeable in any of my pics.

My gut says:
The compression won't compromise the board at all, because Epoxy resin doesn't crack like Poly.

Interesting personal experience with this:
When I flew to Portugal, my paddle was in the board bag with my Creek.... and I didn't tape it to the side of the board.
The airlines must have put something heavy on my board, and my paddle was sandwiched between them....because there was a deep handle shaped compression on the bottom when I arrived.
Epoxy didn't crack at all..... it just a smooth dent. Pic #1 & 2

That was January.... since then, the EPS has returned to shape and I have a hard time finding the spot.

1st pics are of the depression in January.... easily seen at a distance
Last pic's show 3 angles of the board 2 weeks ago.... after I installed a Shark Shield for the buyer.
A year old, and after 3 abusive months in Portugal..... all cleaned up like new, and no visible dent or any marks.

Epoxy and EPS are quite amazing.


Area 10

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Itís a shame that all brands who make wood veneer boards donít use a wooden stringer like Hypr Nalu Hawaii do. They use thick hardwood veneers plus wooden stringers to create a very tough I-beam type construction. It makes standing area depressions much less likely (and makes the boards stiffer too).

Bean

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Wood stringers add serious strength but with proper wood veneer (sandwich) construction they should not be necessary.  True sandwich construction at a minimum entails an inner glass layer the wood layer, and an outer glass layer.  The key is putting the right distance between the glass layers for a strong ďsandwichĒ.

Veneer boards got a bad rap in the early Surftech days when a veneer was slapped on to an EPS blank with a minimal outer glass job.  I have one of these hanging on a wall in my gym, and it looks great.

The Sunova technology is among the very best, so Iím looking forward to hearing how this all plays out.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 06:31:21 AM by Bean »

robon

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Thanks for the feed back Creek. I will try to get pics but because the compression isn't major and the deck pad is a very dark grey, so it's hard to see without getting eye level right to the rail, but you definitely see it when looking close. Also definitely noticeable now when I step back behind the carry handle and back into the centre of the board.

I don't mind if the compression prints stay like this, and don't compromise the board, but it's a bit worry some. The fin box has been more of a nuisance than this so far to be honest. Overall, it's a very nice board and it paddles well. Some thought went into this design and it's obvious it is meant to be paddled in all conditions. Not your typical touring design with very minimal rocker and a flared out displacement hull. The Expedition handles side chop and quartering swell really nicely, can catch glides, and it goes upwind alright. 

supthecreek

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ronbon:

Here's a quote from Tino's reply to me, about your compressions.
"it can happen. As long as it's not lifting or delamination it's ok. Until that happens just use it.
If it does delaminate it's a claim"



-------------------------------
A10 said:
"Itís a shame that all brands who make wood veneer boards donít use a wooden stringer like Hypr Nalu Hawaii do. "

Not a shame at all:
Bert Burger stopped using wood stringers decades ago, because of their inherent weakness.

Wood has a definitive snapping point, that when reached, the boards break.
Without the limiting wood stringer, Epoxy/EPS combo will bend much further without any stress to the strength of the glass or foam, as seen in my pics above.
The boards have proper a flex and spring right back to shape.

Sunovas use balsa for a reason...
besides being light and strong.... it has amazing flex in length AND width, making it very hard to break from a bend.
The boards will break in the right situation.... but far less often than boards with stringers.

And anyone near me, who wants to, is welcome to inspect all 20 of my 4 year old demo boards for stress cracks, dings, dents..... and report back here what they see.
They are my daily drivers.... and have seen a LOT of use and abuse..






« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 07:31:10 AM by supthecreek »

robon

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Thanks Creek. Not a rant and I'm just being cautious. I've included a couple of pics and it's hard to see, but you will notice the ridge under the carry handle being the high point and the depression between the rail and handle. I think it's likely just fine but wouldn't be able to tell what is exactly going on without peeling back the deck pad, but it's likely all good. I've only had it a relatively short time, so just a bit concerned, but I will just keep enjoying the board.

Area 10

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Yes, stringers add weight. But itís not that much compared to the extra strength and rigidity they add, and weight is not so important on a touring board. And I donít accept this ďflex will save your boardĒ proposal - this is a dubious argument for surf boards, never mind what we are talking about talking about here, which is the deck of a wood veneer touring board. Stringers arenít often used principally because it is more expensive and difficult to do so, not because there arenít advantages of doing so. If Naish has used stringers on the early Malikos they probably wouldnít have had the issues with them that some did (due to flexing) and if Sunova had used a stringer on this board this thread would probably not exist.

TallDude

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Some of my CF distance boards have indentations where I always stand. If you paddle a lot, and weigh a lot it's going to happen regardless of the construction. Even aluminum would eventually have an indentation ::)
My SUP surf boards all seem fine. My feet move around a lot while I using them, so I'm never in the same spot for very long. A longer distance board will experience more bending at the center where you stand. This compression at the center /top of the board will aid in mid point buckling, further adding to the problem. The handle inserts are a reinforced or stiffened area (just around the handle), as are the top edge along the rails. The spot you stand on is probably the weakest place you could stand on the board. 

Bean

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Here is a board that DB shaped for me back in 2012, S-glass and traditional stringer.
It's hard to see in the pic but on both sides of the stringer there are now footwells that go down about 1/2".  Still love this board and I'm convinced that the depressions actually help stability and feel.  ;D

 


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